Obama's Stimulus Package

[Robbie G]

I know it would never happen, but that would be great. (on the surface)

[gladimnotsoluble]

James unfortunately you are wrong (for like the first time i've disagreed with you haha) :/, I don't know if personally you want to debate it though

[James R.]

but what happens if the majority of the people save the stimulus instead of spending it...(not saying that will happen) just askin

It all depends on who it's going to. I mean businesses will HAVE to spend to keep themselves going. They'll be spending on payroll at least which keeps jobs. If that money, through the businesses, gets put into the common man's hands then it won't matter if it's saved or spent. Like I said before, the more money that's in the banks the better. The more they'll be able to lend out. The more money they'll have to do whatever it is that they need to do. Most western economies run off of debt. The more money people owe them the better.

It's like renting houses out. The more you rent out the more money you "know" you're getting unless shit happens and people can't pay you (something like what happened in the depression. banks wanted money people couldn't afford to pay back and the economy collapsed). So that's what banks do. They try to have people paying them as much money as possible each month so they can budget themselves.

So if people are putting their money in banks then, like I said, they can do their thing and the economy will start to pick up again. The only real issue that I can see with my understanding of the plan at this moment is businesses just blowing. Thats why shit needs to be put in place to make sure that doesn't happen. Advisers, systems, laws, protocols, rules, and regulations.

James unfortunately you are wrong (for like the first time i've disagreed with you haha) :/, I don't know if personally you want to debate it though

No, you disagree with me, it's opinions. And I, like the government and society at large, don't care if you agree with me or not.

[Tash8]

I don't know...but that's strike two.

how many strikes are we gonna have in 4 years?

i'm not sure but i'm positive it wouldn't match the billions of strikes that george bush went through in the 8 years he was there.

[gladimnotsoluble]

James unfortunately you are wrong (for like the first time i've disagreed with you haha) :/, I don't know if personally you want to debate it though

No, you disagree with me, it's opinions. And I, like the government and society at large, don't care if you agree with me or not.

Heh, that was pretty cold man.

I'm reading about it and I'm not seeing exactly what is getting this almost $1 trillion.

800 billion + 10 year plan interest of 300 billion = 1.1 to 1.2 trillion dollars.

It has nothing to do with being socialist. That's just stupid. Do I agree with using all this money to curve this? Not really, but I don't really prefer the republican approach of acting like it's something that happens and it'll fix itself while everything goes to hell *reference great depression*

It is pretty socialist, most of the money goes to social programs (whether for good or bad, that is too be debated) but it is not going towards economic stimulus. In plus, the republican approach asks for tax cuts and infastructure spending, not government pork/beaurocracy as seen in FDR's New Deal, and now in this bill ( 335 million going to STDs, 650 million going to tv coupons, 4 BILLION going to ACORN...etc.) --and the great depression was CAUSED when the government sucked all the money out of the economy...i.e. what they are doing right now, borrowing every single DIME of this 800 billion-1.1 trillion dollars.

Our economy is BASED on money moving through people's hands, in and out of banks (the more that's in the better the less the worse), how much shit people are buying, and how many people are working to keep that all going.

YES money moving through OUR hands, hence FREE market systems, NOT government systems.

Create social programs that keep people from falling flat, create more jobs, or go to war. The war thing isn't working. We already have social programs, and a lot of the most broken have been either fixed or eliminated (i.e. putting a limit on welfare, although disability has become the newest broken system). And the whole creating more jobs thing kinda took a turn for the worse when Bush thought it'd be a great idea to outsource every company and its mother. Not that it was completely his fault, but he sent it over the edge.

War is discounted of course, social programs does not STIMULATE the economy, yes of course the money is needed to help out states (hence the 200Billion that both parties support) to shore up social programs, and creating jobs is the idea. Obama's plan is to create 4 million jobs--[NOW (1) you can not blame bush at all for outsourcing--presidents are not in charge of it, it was a democratic congress for 6 years (2) if you knew anything about economics, trade specialization actually helps economies for both parties, hence outsourcing is good] and you create 4 million jobs through infastructure spending and tax incentives. HOWEVER only 7% goes through this fiscal year! it will equal to less than 1% of our gdp, instead of spending money on EVERYTHING else (PORK) devote it to Obama's original plan, combined with Romer ( obama's council of economic adviser) idea of tax cuts, and you have a good plan.

No one KNOWS what's going to happen, so we just have to wait and see.

You are absolutely correct. However, you have to realize we must use proven methods, and not use things that don't work, I.E. Bush's stimulus package was a failure. Let's have infastructure spending and greater tax cuts, let's not mortgage out our children and their children's futures. This is a ridiculous amount of money, and it is being used like there is no tomorrow--it is ridiculous and it is putting us precipitously on the edge of economic destruction.

[<Stiiccy>]

I don't know...but that's strike two.

how many strikes are we gonna have in 4 years?

i'm not sure but i'm positive it wouldn't match the billions of strikes that george bush went through in the 8 years he was there.

i totally agree

[Tash8]

btw to those who believe obama wont make mistakes, ur wrong, he will, he'll make a SHITLOAD of them... of course he will, every president will, he'll probably make even more... it's not that easy to pull a country out of a recession which is getting close to a great depression... but people believe, so do i, that if anything, Obama has a way better chance leading us out of it, giving us hope (hope is what americans strive for) than McCain would have ever had.

[James R.]

I'm just in complete disbelief for 2 reasons. 1 because I didn't think it was possible to disagree with someone so completely. And 2 because I've never had someone say "if I knew anything about [blank]" then I'd understand something when they clearly have no grasp on 90% of what they're talking about.

[gladimnotsoluble]

I'm just in complete disbelief for 2 reasons. 1 because I didn't think it was possible to disagree with someone so completely. And 2 because I've never had someone say "if I knew anything about [blank]" then I'd understand something when they clearly have no grasp on 90% of what they're talking about.

I systematically went down what you said and showed what it was incorrect.

And you say i have no grasp on 90% of what I talk about? Really? Want to attempt to prove me wrong ANYWHERE here? At all?

[gladimnotsoluble]

^ Okay I apologize to you James if I'm offending you in any way--whenever politics is discussed no doubt it gets heated and I don't want any of that.

And I understand and respect your opinion, I just feel like--shouldn't it be debated? Isn't that what people do, debate about their opinions?

That's why I took it down and showed what I believed for everything you said

So once again, I apologize and i'm actually sorry if I sounded dickish and rude, I probably did, this is just something I feel compassionate about and wanted to see a response to stir up a good debate, not angry feelings.

Thanks

[James R.]

^S'all gravy yo. We got different opinions. It happens more times than it doesnt.

[gladimnotsoluble]

Cool man.


Back on topic...lol


I think, it'll go through the Senate, some of the unncessary pork projects that are in the bill will get shaved off, maybe a little more tax breaks will happen--and hopefully it does the job it's supposed to do.

Not one repub voted for it...so if it doesn't work..all the heat goes to Obama, which is unfortunate.

I'd love to see a more bipartisan effort...but we'll see in the next couple weeks when it gets done.