The TRshady Forum became read-only in December 2014. The 10 year history will live on, in this archive.
Continue the discussion with the new home for the Eminem and Hip Hop discussion: HipHopShelter.com.

Rap vs Hip Hop

Fellow ladies and fella Master-Debaters, discuss serious topics.

Re: Rap vs Hip Hop

Postby ,-,'-{Bar}-',-, » Sep 11th, '08, 21:29

firstly imma break yoshis post down but im not arguin lol just wanne show what parts im commenting on lol


Do you really need any knowledge to admire the art, architecture or music? I think no. This kind of knowledge might be even a kind of barrier - it leads to futher analysing, comparing and shit. What for? Music is like a pair of jeans - tomorrow tight, today baggy, tomorrow - who knows? The thing is that you feel comfortable.

On the other hand - everything has to have a beginning. Everything's got its history. You cannot judge the present or foresee the future without knowing the history. Especially when we talk about hip hop music - a melting pot of years of slavery, jazz, racial issues, blues, discrimination, funk, Malcolm X, poverty, Black Power and blaxploitation. A dynamic, changing collage, which is basically a recirculation of the whole musical heritage of human race. Like Busta Rhymes told me once: "you can turn every music into hip hop, but you cannot turn hip hop into anything else".

In general there are 4 basic elements of the hip hop culture: graffiti, breakdance, DJ'ing and MC'ing [plus beatboxing, often forgotten but how important at the same time]. 2 of them - DJ'ing and MC'ing constituted rap music.


that bolded line is so true, it was sorta what i was saying, about you can be a rapper but not be into hip hop at all, and not know the history (that im so glad this guy highlighted) so for me you are not hip hop your just rapping.



Abstract Hip Hop: mostly instrumental hip hop, but also experimental projects - mixing rapping with poetry. DJ Krush, DJ Shadow, RJD2.

Dirty South: 'third' coast rap, rap from Georgia, Louisiana, Texas and Florida. Lil Jon, OutKast, TI, Arrested Development.

Crunk: 'party' rap, which originated from the Southern rap. Lil Jon, Ying Yang Twins,

Dirty Rap: sexual content. Goldfinger, Kool Keith

Christian Rap: religious. Gospel Ganstaz [LOL!!], 12th Tribe

Conscious Rap: which often has got political background, but it's about social problems. Arrested Development, Talib Kweli/Mos Def [Black Star], Common, The Roots.

Kid Rap: rofl - Lil' Bow Wow, Lil' Romeo this shit's weird, but yeah, obviously it's a genre..

Eastcoast Rap: positive, afrocentric movement, somewhere between 80's-90's - Native Tongues [De La Soul, Jungle Brothers, ATCQ], Jay-Z, Eric B & Rakim, LL Cool J, Jeru The Damaja, Ultramagnetic MC's and so on.

Electro: mix of funk and rap. Kraftwerk, Planet Patrol, World Class Wreckin' Crew

Emo-hop: (blahahahahah, that cracked me up!! ) - a journalistic idea mostly, regarding to artists whose lyrics are every emotional and private. Atmosphere, Emanon, Sage Francis.

Freestyle: we all know that rofl.

Gansta Rap: same here.

G-Funk: close to gangsta rap, more chilled though. characteristic organs, bass and funk samples.

Hardcore Rap: you can use this term to describe different types of rap, i.e. gangsta rap. it can be used in terms of lyrics and beats. DMX, Method Man, NWA

Hip House: mix of rap and house music. Big Daddy Kane, De La Soul, Queen Latifah.

Jazz Rap: obvious.

Miami Bass: deep, pulsating bass, fast beat, sexual content.

Old School Rap: Grandmaster Flash, Kurtis Blow, Whodini.

Underground Rap: far from mainstream. it can be used to describe different styles, it pertrains more to labels than to actual lyrical content. ya dig?

Political Rap: ya dig?

Pop Rap: mostly the very mainstream like Flo-Rida, T-Pain n shit. you get it, right?

Alternative Rap: far from popular styles and beats, mixing rap with gospel, rock, reggae, folk, soul. The Roots, OutKast, De La Soul, Del Tha Funkee Homosapien.

Latin Rap: latin artists, i guess it's more about origin than actual content.

Rapcore: rap + rock.

Trip-Hop: british answer for hip hop. it originates from Bristol, so UK artists tend to call it Bristol Sound. jazz, funk, soul, electro mixed with rap.

Turntablism: turntables + mixers.

Westcoast Rap

Golden Age: 80-90's rap.



the breakdown is true but here's my view on this, all these sub genre's and style of rap are hip hop no doubt about that for me, they all ventured out from the same culture and the same roots BUT not all the artists who put thereselves in these sub genre's are hip hop..does that make sense ? in no way for me is t-pain hip hop, never in a million years will i accept that, he is not doin what hip hop is about he is not making that movement he isnt what its about, he is a guy rapping (sorta) but he is not a Hip Hop artists, im finding this hard to explain so tell me if your getting me lol

when i try explain that alot of these people are rappers but not hip hop artists its always taken the wrong way, people say i just dont like mainstream, that isnt true, or that i dont like club tracks, that isnt true either, there's just certain ways things are done that make it hip hop for me and how the artist carries himself, a good example is 50 cent, hes a smart guy he carries himself like a hip hop artist, he always has and always will coz he was once a hip hop artist and you dont lose that influence but he lost hunger and his music no longer expressed the hip hop he once was he is now just a rapper not a hip hop artist (this is just my perception on this example so dont hate) he was never lyrical he was of the Gangsta Rap genre and some other Rap genre's but he was also hip hop, he now just does the genre's and no longer the hip hop part of it.


so even if an artist takes the frame of a hip hop artist and does one of these sub rap genre's you list doesnt make him hip hop, when this gets put forward to artists they say "we are ALL hip hop just different styles of hip hop" thats a lie, they are all rap and all different styles of rap but that doesnt say they embrace hip hop.

for me if your hip hop your for the cutlure want to progress the culture and promote the culture, you obviously want to get your money and shit but your goal is always in the best intrests of the culture if it isnt and your in it for yourself your just a rapper not a hip hop artist. < thats a short example of my opninion on it coz my full one would go on forever.


omg, a long-ass post, but i just wanted to make it clear. i agree with what that guy wrote. it's important though to understand that there's no strict border between each style. like for example, Jazz Rap and Eastcoast Rap, or Hardcore and Westcoast. artists can connect between styles, that's the beauty of music.



you hit on why i love hip hop here, the connection bewtween styles doesnt happen in other styles, only hip hop embraces it, the big style connection for pop was robbie williams and kylie minoge doin a song together, for hip hop its shit like LInking Park and Busta Rhymes or Eminem And Elton John, thats the great thing about hip hop like the guy sayed, any style can go with hip hop but hip hop can never change style.


also, from my point of view you can use "hip hop" while talking about the music only, because rap is actually part of the whole culture. you cannot use "rap" while talking about the culture in general though. i hope you get what i mean, it's like every square is a rectangle, but not every rectangle is a square lol. but stating the difference between "rap music" and "hip hop music" is totally pointless for me. or inventing a totally new genre called "rap/hip hop" - for heaven's sake, what the fuck is that?..


i think i get you and imo Rap Is part of Hip Hop, Hip Hop Is Not part of rap
User avatar
,-,'-{Bar}-',-,
Bad Influence
Bad Influence
 
Posts: 16978
Joined: Apr 10th, '06, 21:41
Location: Scotland
Gender: Male

Re: Rap vs Hip Hop

Postby yoshi » Sep 11th, '08, 22:37

,-,'-{Bar}-',-, wrote:
that bolded line is so true, it was sorta what i was saying, about you can be a rapper but not be into hip hop at all, and not know the history (that im so glad this guy highlighted) so for me you are not hip hop your just rapping.


yeah. i love this quote and i find it true to the core. the history of the whole black movement is a key to understanding rap music, a big part of it at least, so it has to be highlighted. an example from the top of my head - Common ft. Will.I.Am - I Have A Dream. gotta have slight knowledge bout Martin Luther King to understand what is the point of the song..

of course, we talk about american rap here. i don't think you really need to dig into the black history to understand OSTR's or Kool Savas' tracks, right? -.-

the breakdown is true but here's my view on this, all these sub genre's and style of rap are hip hop no doubt about that for me, they all ventured out from the same culture and the same roots BUT not all the artists who put thereselves in these sub genre's are hip hop..does that make sense ? in no way for me is t-pain hip hop, never in a million years will i accept that, he is not doin what hip hop is about he is not making that movement he isnt what its about, he is a guy rapping (sorta) but he is not a Hip Hop artists, im finding this hard to explain so tell me if your getting me lol



@ the bolded part: i get your point :D and that's a good point. talking about movement.. i'd really LOVE to feel the spirit of the 80-90's.. the clothes, music, lifestyle.. everything.

seems to me like he's just making club bangers to get money. pure business, isn't it? hate it or, he's a part of the hip hop culture too. maybe he won't be remembered and praised as much as 2Pac, Rakim, Nas or Biggie [oh, i so wish he wouldn't.. :'( ], but at this point, he is the part of it.

culture is.. uhm.. a flexible thing let's say. hip hop changed since it's beginning. different styles developed, different clothes and trends. my point is just that it changed. we might not like it, but that's a fact.

i also think that you're idealising it a bit. don't get me wrong, but maybe that's why it disappoints you so much nowadays. i know you'd like to see hip hop as it was seen back in the days, with NWA or Rakim getting bumped on every street corner, but you gotta think also about the world nowadays. it changed since those days, so did hip hop culture - it evolved into something else, more commercial and pop-influenced because that's what people dig today. sucks, doesn't it? :(


when i try explain that alot of these people are rappers but not hip hop artists its always taken the wrong way, people say i just dont like mainstream, that isnt true, or that i dont like club tracks, that isnt true either, there's just certain ways things are done that make it hip hop for me and how the artist carries himself, a good example is 50 cent, hes a smart guy he carries himself like a hip hop artist, he always has and always will coz he was once a hip hop artist and you dont lose that influence but he lost hunger and his music no longer expressed the hip hop he once was he is now just a rapper not a hip hop artist (this is just my perception on this example so dont hate) he was never lyrical he was of the Gangsta Rap genre and some other Rap genre's but he was also hip hop, he now just does the genre's and no longer the hip hop part of it.


50 is businessman now. there's a difference between an artist and a businessmann. for me - Talib is an artist. Jay-Z is a businessman. Nas - somewhere between.

i seen Talib live. he performed with so much positive vibe, i couldn't believe that he'd ever sold himself like 50 did. never seen 50's performance, but i think he's more of an entertainer. he makes it for the publicity, for money. Talib makes it because he loves it. i've read/watched interviews with him and he seemed so sincere and faithful to the game, i hope he will never change. the day he sells himself - i will say "fuck hip hop".


@ club bangers and mainstream: i like them.. not all of course, but 90% is listen-able. i'm not calling it big art, because it's not - that's obvious. but you get my point, i can listen to it and have fun, but it's not something that gives me gosebumps when i bang it. ya dig? :shifty:


i could go on forever too, but.. why it's only me and you discussing it? :-k
Maybe wrote:I'm so awesome, I don't mind looking desperate.

Chet wrote:Fuck House. If I wanted to watch a sarcastic person in the medical field, I would stalk Yoshi :8)
User avatar
yoshi
Bad Influence
Bad Influence
 
Posts: 19405
Joined: Feb 9th, '05, 21:10
Location: Poland, Warsaw
Gender: Female

Re: Rap vs Hip Hop

Postby Emadyville » Sep 11th, '08, 22:47

Yoshi and Bar good breakdowns and I agree with your main points, they make sense and that is basically how I look at hip-hop and rap and how they differentiate.

Love the comment about mixing styles, some of my favorite shit is when you mix rap and rock, for example Sing For The Moment, he took a rock song and turned it into a rap song, the whole Linkin Park Jay-Z mash up was the same thing.
Menzo wrote:Its cuz you're dope and Daddy Dubs. No one fucks with that


I love you Daren
User avatar
Emadyville
Django
Django
 
Posts: 24833
Joined: Jan 17th, '08, 15:58
Location: Catasauqua PA
Gender: Male

Re: Rap vs Hip Hop

Postby Kez » Sep 12th, '08, 00:23

They were always basically both the same thing to me.

I'd never thought as in-depth about it as Bar and Yoshi clearly have
User avatar
Kez
Pill Popper
Pill Popper
 
Posts: 8713
Joined: Jun 1st, '06, 20:04
Location: Japan
Gender: Male

Re: Rap vs Hip Hop

Postby Tornado » Sep 12th, '08, 15:04

,-,'-{Bar}-',-, wrote:i myself prefer getting called a MC rather than a rapper, because i dont cross over to other genre's or change my ultimate style that is Hip Hop, i may express it in different ways from time to time but its always the core elements of hip hops true meaning. a rapper doesnt do this a rapper does a song that means nothing and does it to sell (lollipop) that POP fans like because they like music that is just music with good vibes and beats. Hip Hop fans want that original meaning of hip hop shown to them through-out the track and the way the artist projects that to them is what makes them who they are.


i'd just like to add in the Uk, at least grime is seen as totaaly different from uk rap and i can't see too much difference to it. Cos grime has a higher tempo, more garage/techno kinda synths and basses, people claim it's not hip hop but embraces the hip hop culture with contewnt of girls/gangs/money etc and also you get grime "MC'S" (which doesn't make sense cos in uk if you do grime, your a mc but if you rap, your not)who crossover to rap, Dizzee Rascal and Sway being good examples and also it's using other genres together that influence it , so i'd add grime to the list even though it's not universally recognised yet.
3K & Out
Tornado
Role Model
Role Model
 
Posts: 3039
Joined: Jul 5th, '07, 15:36
Location: A fucked up world....residing in LDN
Gender: Male

Re: Rap vs Hip Hop

Postby Kez » Sep 12th, '08, 18:24

Tornado wrote:
i'd just like to add in the Uk, at least grime is seen as totaaly different from uk rap and i can't see too much difference to it. Cos grime has a higher tempo, more garage/techno kinda synths and basses, people claim it's not hip hop but embraces the hip hop culture with contewnt of girls/gangs/money etc and also you get grime "MC'S" (which doesn't make sense cos in uk if you do grime, your a mc but if you rap, your not)who crossover to rap, Dizzee Rascal and Sway being good examples and also it's using other genres together that influence it , so i'd add grime to the list even though it's not universally recognised yet.


Fuck Grime

Grime is ruining the UK rap scene
User avatar
Kez
Pill Popper
Pill Popper
 
Posts: 8713
Joined: Jun 1st, '06, 20:04
Location: Japan
Gender: Male

Re: Rap vs Hip Hop

Postby ,-,'-{Bar}-',-, » Sep 12th, '08, 18:35

Kez wrote:
Tornado wrote:
i'd just like to add in the Uk, at least grime is seen as totaaly different from uk rap and i can't see too much difference to it. Cos grime has a higher tempo, more garage/techno kinda synths and basses, people claim it's not hip hop but embraces the hip hop culture with contewnt of girls/gangs/money etc and also you get grime "MC'S" (which doesn't make sense cos in uk if you do grime, your a mc but if you rap, your not)who crossover to rap, Dizzee Rascal and Sway being good examples and also it's using other genres together that influence it , so i'd add grime to the list even though it's not universally recognised yet.


Fuck Grime

Grime is ruining the UK rap scene



lol i thought like this once, but i just wanne know who you heard do grime coz, like ive sayed before and had sayed to me, grime is great just 90% of grime artists are shit at doin grime because the style is so different and hard to do well that there are very few Great grime artists and some people are great at it (sway for example) but doesnt do it in the full effect so when you heard a shit artists doin full on grime tracks its wack as fuck, but if you find one of the greats at grime the shit is intense and awesome lol
User avatar
,-,'-{Bar}-',-,
Bad Influence
Bad Influence
 
Posts: 16978
Joined: Apr 10th, '06, 21:41
Location: Scotland
Gender: Male

Re: Rap vs Hip Hop

Postby Emadyville » Sep 12th, '08, 20:56

WHat exactly is grime? Like what defines it. Youtube link? Thanks beforehand.
Menzo wrote:Its cuz you're dope and Daddy Dubs. No one fucks with that


I love you Daren
User avatar
Emadyville
Django
Django
 
Posts: 24833
Joined: Jan 17th, '08, 15:58
Location: Catasauqua PA
Gender: Male

Re: Rap vs Hip Hop

Postby ,-,'-{Bar}-',-, » Sep 12th, '08, 22:15

Emadyville wrote:WHat exactly is grime? Like what defines it. Youtube link? Thanks beforehand.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9Km95JV ... re=related



got alot of techno electro influence in it, also second verse is alot clearer if your not great with the british accent.
User avatar
,-,'-{Bar}-',-,
Bad Influence
Bad Influence
 
Posts: 16978
Joined: Apr 10th, '06, 21:41
Location: Scotland
Gender: Male

Re: Rap vs Hip Hop

Postby Tash8 » Sep 13th, '08, 01:44

,-,'-{Bar}-',-, wrote:
Emadyville wrote:WHat exactly is grime? Like what defines it. Youtube link? Thanks beforehand.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9Km95JV ... re=related



got alot of techno electro influence in it, also second verse is alot clearer if your not great with the british accent.


i duno that sounded pretty cool to me?

i just hate the god damn clap rolls!
User avatar
Tash8
Addict
Addict
 
Posts: 12522
Joined: Feb 19th, '07, 20:04
Gender: Male

Re: Rap vs Hip Hop

Postby <Stiiccy> » Sep 13th, '08, 02:41

,-,'-{Bar}-',-, wrote:
Emadyville wrote:WHat exactly is grime? Like what defines it. Youtube link? Thanks beforehand.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9Km95JV ... re=related



got alot of techno electro influence in it, also second verse is alot clearer if your not great with the british accent.

grime in my opinion is Mobb Deep http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeuEGr_UTzg
they were the best at it
Sticcy Z
Prison in Febuary, i don't give no fuckkssss
Image
Saten is here
User avatar
<Stiiccy>
Role Model
Role Model
 
Posts: 3386
Joined: Dec 28th, '07, 14:48
Location: United States bitch
Gender: Male

Re: Rap vs Hip Hop

Postby ,-,'-{Bar}-',-, » Sep 13th, '08, 09:52

Tash8 wrote:
,-,'-{Bar}-',-, wrote:
Emadyville wrote:WHat exactly is grime? Like what defines it. Youtube link? Thanks beforehand.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9Km95JV ... re=related



got alot of techno electro influence in it, also second verse is alot clearer if your not great with the british accent.


i duno that sounded pretty cool to me?

i just hate the god damn clap rolls!



rolls or off beat snares (double time or triple time usually) is a big part of the grime beat style.


also even though that track is decent, it isnt his best grime track BUT he is the best at grime imo and nearly every other grime listener, so when he says King of grime he actually is lol


sticcy z wrote:
,-,'-{Bar}-',-, wrote:
Emadyville wrote:WHat exactly is grime? Like what defines it. Youtube link? Thanks beforehand.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9Km95JV ... re=related



got alot of techno electro influence in it, also second verse is alot clearer if your not great with the british accent.

grime in my opinion is Mobb Deep http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeuEGr_UTzg
they were the best at it


and yeh your thinking of a Grimey style, we are talking about ah spin off of uk hip hop called Grime
User avatar
,-,'-{Bar}-',-,
Bad Influence
Bad Influence
 
Posts: 16978
Joined: Apr 10th, '06, 21:41
Location: Scotland
Gender: Male

Re: Rap vs Hip Hop

Postby Ak25 » Sep 13th, '08, 18:37

I Think Rap is more serious, lyrical and hardcore.... unlike that lollipop shit
Ak25
Trailer Trash
Trailer Trash
 
Posts: 366
Joined: Aug 31st, '07, 23:20

Re: Rap vs Hip Hop

Postby Dark Blue » Sep 14th, '08, 17:09

yeah i think it mostly the same
HATERS If you worked your dreams like you do your mouth - things would happen for you
User avatar
Dark Blue
Addict
Addict
 
Posts: 10004
Joined: Mar 7th, '08, 22:14
Location: canada
Gender: Male

Re: Rap vs Hip Hop

Postby yoshi » Sep 15th, '08, 00:00

shadybaby101 wrote:yeah i think it mostly the same



rofl @ the conclusion. :sweating:
Maybe wrote:I'm so awesome, I don't mind looking desperate.

Chet wrote:Fuck House. If I wanted to watch a sarcastic person in the medical field, I would stalk Yoshi :8)
User avatar
yoshi
Bad Influence
Bad Influence
 
Posts: 19405
Joined: Feb 9th, '05, 21:10
Location: Poland, Warsaw
Gender: Female

PreviousNext

Return to Serious Debate



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

cron