Should a Mosque be built near ground zero?

[mcZu]

Politics is, sadly, the cause and the solution of all our problems. You're certainly right about issues being complex to the point that you just cannot ignore all the main points. But, unfortunately, complex issues walk hand in hand with missconceptions and ignorance. In fact, I'm actually being a hypocrite by not addressing all the main points.. However, doing so can be necessary for bringing a point across.

And we all have a lot of work to do. Not just the US, the whole world. Humanity needs to shift its view from supremacy and focus on equality. That's the only way we can ever be near the illusive dream of peace.

[Irvinga04]

You didn't say which ones do either. You said Muslims, no specification. So by logical that would mean you're addressing the whole group. So don't tell me to get my facts straight when there is no fact at hand to get straight. You on the other hand have to be more specific when refering to a said group, otherwise it comes of as as if you're refering to the whole group.

No, i said:

I just can't really beleive that the people over in Saudi are too interested in "community cohesion" between muslims and non-muslims in New York when they regard all non-muslims (kuffir) as lesser beings

I said people in saudi do, not all muslims.

Where did you read/hear that? Because I've never heard about that. It is against Islamic law and teaching to kill a person, to say that they will kill a person that chooses to convert out of Islam is preposterous in every element of the term possible... Again, I'm really interested as to know where you picked that litle ''fact'' up.

Lol, seriously? Its against islamic law to kill a person!?? Saudi Arabia, Iran ect. base their whole legal system on Islamic law. Its islamic law they are using to justify their actions...
If you really want sources ok, a little bit of research would have been easier for you though.

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2008/108492.htm
On the US government website, a few paragraphs down: " Blasphemy carries the death penalty"

This is the official Saudi Curriculum http://www.nooor.com/, which when you translate it states:

"An Apostate will be suppressed three days in prison in order that he may repent ..... otherwise, he should be killed, because he has changed his true religion, therefore, there is no use from his living, regardless of being a man or a woman, as Mohammed said: "Whoever changes his religion, kill him""

There are hundreds of others, its just a fact.

[Irvinga04]

And, to the guy who raised the "where did the money come from" question. Realize this... this super-important, super-urgent funding conspiracy which determined a "dangerous Saudi" was funding the Mosque was created by Fox News. Fox News and its pundits ran all the stories about this DANGEROUS individual, they created ALL the hype about this terrorist-connected madman, they generate all the buzz about the imminent threats this man poses to our country...

...Unbelievably enough, this funding PSYCHOPATH is the largest owner of Fox News (aside from Rupert Murdoch). He owns something like 10% of the company. So, not only is their claims beyond ludicrous, but, why aren't you enraged by the funding of Fox News as well? Why don't you believe Fox News is a terrorist command center? Why don't you think, in your words, terrorists don't "have a big say in what is taught there, what materials are on display, ect.". Is it because everyone working at Fox News is white? What if it were a predominately Muslim news station? Would you call it into question then? Blame it for spreading terrorist ideals then???

Oh, and by the way, I love your "guilty before proven innocent" approach to this matter. They MIGHT spread TERRORIST MENTALITY there! Well, go protest the building of a new Church, because the priests MIGHT touch little boys bungholes.

Final question to you - do you REALLY think that community center will be involved with nefarious acts or teachings? Do you REALLY think that??? REALLY???

As i said before i didnt get any info from fox news. From what i am aware the funding is coming from a number of different people, not 1 man. Can you really not see the difference between buying a 10% stake in a news company and starting up a mosque next to ground zero? Since presumably the mosque will not be profit making operation, its clearly not being done for business reasons.

The church example is incomparable, the equivelent would be if rich pedophiles from another country were funding the building of a youth church designed to "improve adult-youth relations". If that were ever to happen (obviously it wont) then yes, i would be opposed to it and would go and protest there.

In awnser to your final question: yes, i think it would be likely they would. In my opinion all mosques should be funded from home, its totally ridiculous to have a country which totally denys freedom of religion to build mosques all over the world.

Im understand im from Europe where we have a bigger problem with integration than over there, ive got nothing against muslims in general i just have a problem with how the intolerant are given so much freedom.

Heres a video which sums up my worries perfectly, its by a muslim talking about the problems of radical islam.
http://www.truthtube.tv/play.php?vid=4268

[mrjizzbomber]

In my opinion all mosques should be funded from home, its totally ridiculous to have a country which totally denys freedom of religion to build mosques all over the world.

Heres my main problem with your argument. "All Mosques should be funded from home". Why not all Churches? Why not all Synagogues? Why not "All religious institutions should be funded from home"?

Because you are targeting Muslims, you are still speaking through prejudice. And, once more, if you want to say Islamic countries deny freedom of religion and create a climate where inhumane acts take place, you are ignoring the long, violent, cruel and hate-fueled histories of the other religions in this world. Christianity being the prime culprit.

[mrjizzbomber]

My second, very separate issue is you calling Fox News a "news company". The name of the station is confusing you, Fox News is NOT a news network. They are a Republican propaganda network. The people who appear on Fox News are NOT news reporters. They are political pundits, who are working to help promote the politics of their party.

Regardless, I would think if you have an issue with a "sketchy dude" funding a Mosque, you would sure as shit have an issue with the same dude funding a political propaganda organization. Even if Fox News WAS a news organization (and be clear it is not), I would think you would still have an issue with someone linked to terrorism funding an organization which reports news across our country. Would you really feel comfortable with a terrorist funded organization giving Americans their news? Are you OK that this terrorist funded organization spreads propaganda and tries to influence millions of Americans daily?

By the way, I am OK with this man (Al-Waleed bin Talal) having such a large ownership in this political propaganda / "news" organization. And so are the Republicans, the government, and you. Why? Because he is actually a friend of our country. He tried to donate money to NYC right after 9/11 occurred (it was rejected for purely political reasons, sigh, 2 party system is destroying our country).

The notion that he is dangerous and wants to spread Muslim ideology and sharia law in our country is a lie generated by... heres the kicker... the political propaganda machine that is Fox News. So, regardless of exactly where you got your information or news from, it was generated by the Republican propaganda machine. Talk about throwing one of your own under the bus, huh...

[WakeUpShow]

the witch trials were about 400 years ago, and suffrage was 110 years ago, we corrected our mistakes and moved on, the Muslim countries have not

[fopower]

the witch trials were about 400 years ago, and suffrage was 110 years ago, we corrected our mistakes and moved on, the Muslim countries have not

This isn't about Muslim countries on the brink of collapse. This is about Muslims in America, a stable country.

[WakeUpShow]

the witch trials were about 400 years ago, and suffrage was 110 years ago, we corrected our mistakes and moved on, the Muslim countries have not

This isn't about Muslim countries on the brink of collapse. This is about Muslims in America, a stable country.

you were just talking about the muslim countries

[fopower]

the witch trials were about 400 years ago, and suffrage was 110 years ago, we corrected our mistakes and moved on, the Muslim countries have not

This isn't about Muslim countries on the brink of collapse. This is about Muslims in America, a stable country.

you were just talking about the muslim countries

lol, I guess I was

I'm just saying that we should get back on topic because I think we can all agree that there are alot issues going on with Muslim countries right now, so saying that America is far ahead of them is just pointless and redundant.

[mrjizzbomber]

the witch trials were about 400 years ago, and suffrage was 110 years ago, we corrected our mistakes and moved on, the Muslim countries have not

Yes, but I'm trying to address the attitude, not the problem. I've tried to make it clear, like fopower says: its sad to group together ALL Muslims in the world with Al Qaeda. Its incomprehensible to group together American Muslims with Al Qaeda.

But, if you were talking specifically to Muslim nations or Muslim groups who were having difficulties dealing with Westernization... its silly to take this "Christian good, Muslim bad" attitude. People keep citing their religion as backwards and barbaric, bringing up instances of the Quran being used to justify what appears to be hate, intolerance, extremism, and the wrongful treatment of woman and outsiders. Its just unbelievable that you can attack their holy book and their religious principals, when for thousands of years the Christian holy book and Christian principals have cause the EXACT SAME STUFF!

But, yes, when we are on topic... American Muslims are just as Westernized as modern day Christians. It might be more or less irrelevant but I could, if I wanted to, bring up more recent events done in the name of Christianity which are to me immoral and oppressive. Mother Teresa's forced conversion of Indian orphans to Christianity in exchange for food and shelter, for instance. Telling a homeless starving child to convert and join a convent as a nun, or be left on the streets to die, is akin to "convert, or die" in my book - and that woman is STILL considered a Christian hero And I'm sure if her organization was used to fund a Church no one would question the money trail - despite the shady shit she was involved with when she was alive.

[mcZu]

Direct Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZpT2Mux ... e=youtu.be

[mrjizzbomber]

Oh, how I wish Obama gave that 12 minute speech.

He can't of course, because of politics. Sigh

[WhatsAnEnigma]

Can they legally, Yes. Should they, probably not. I would much rather have your opinion on the matter if you were someone who lost one of the 3,100 or so killed in the attack. Would Muslims want a Christian church built in the vicinity of a place in the Middle East if we had committed a terrorist attack on religious appeal?

Even the Saudi prince of UAE said it would be better not to have it as close as they want to put it. He said they should respect the emotional sensitivity of those who have lost loved ones in effect of the Trade Center attacks.

[mcZu]

Can they legally, Yes. Should they, probably not. I would much rather have your opinion on the matter if you were someone who lost one of the 3,100 or so killed in the attack. Would Muslims want a Christian church built in the vicinity of a place in the Middle East if we had committed a terrorist attack on religious appeal?

Even the Saudi prince of UAE said it would be better not to have it as close as they want to put it. He said they should respect the emotional sensitivity of those who have lost loved ones in effect of the Trade Center attacks.

That's stupid, and do you know why? Because that's like you're saying muslims did it. They didn't. And a lot of muslims died on that day too. Meaning there are more than enough muslims who lost someone in that attack. Sensitivity? Why don't we start protesting against churches being built in America? I'm sure someone who's living near those churches lost a loved one because he got killed by a christian. Any random mugger or murderer could be a christian, but you don't see those people blame christianity. The religion didn't attack those people, the people that are following that religion didn't attack those people. The people who did attack those people were terrorists.

[WhatsAnEnigma]

That's stupid, and do you know why? Because that's like you're saying muslims did it. They didn't. And a lot of muslims died on that day too. Meaning there are more than enough muslims who lost someone in that attack. Sensitivity? Why don't we start protesting against churches being built in America? I'm sure someone who's living near those churches lost a loved one because he got killed by a christian. Any random mugger or murderer could be a christian, but you don't see those people blame christianity. The religion didn't attack those people, the people that are following that religion didn't attack those people. The people who did attack those people were terrorists.

Then who committed the attacks?

There's a difference between a Christian killing someone and a Radical Muslim killing out of religious ideals, which you mentioned but also forgot that they are radicals of Islam. You're argument is invalid. The Radicals claim the lesser Jihad and take it to extremes as a means of offensive warfare.

I'm done trying to argue with you as I could care less to change your opinion, you can believe whatever you want, I'm just stating my opinion, which in this case is true. They claim the lesser Jihad, if you don't believe that then go look it up or watch the special where Bin Laden says "We love death. The U.S. loves life. That is the big difference between us."

I believe that Muhammad doesn't want his own followers killing themselves, but they are radicals, and I understand the difference between the two but they're still a sector inside of Islam.