Getting an Eminem fans point of view on Jay-z Vs. Nas

[KillahBee]

First of all, the beef didn't start off over Jay sampling Nas, it started because from Reasonable Doubt onwards, Jay wanted Nas to hop on a track, Nas wouldn't respond, so eventually Jay took it as an insult and dropped Takeover

Now, Ether vs Takeover? The latter wins all day for me

I think at face value, Ether sounds better, but when you analyse the two tracks, what did Nas say that really was a low blow to Jay? The Rockafella line was brilliant, and there are another few nice lines throughout, but a lot of it is bollocks and playground insults, whereas Takeover is 16 bars breaking downNas' career, and most importantly, complete facts:

There's only so long fake thugs can pretend
Niqqa; you ain't live it, you witnessed it from your folks pad
You scribbled in your notepad and created your life
I showed you your first tec on tour with Large Professor
(Me, that's who!) Then I heard your album bout your tec on your dresser

^ to me, that's a harder shot at Nas than anything Nas threw at Jigga, and as I said, Takeover was basically line after line of shots like that, no fluff, no "big lips" jokes, just cold, hard fact after fact

Hell, I think Blueprint 2 was a better diss than Ether;

Cause you don't understand him, it don't mean that he nice
It just means you don't understand all the bullshit that he write
Is it "Oochie Wally Wally" or is it "One Mic"?
Is it "Black Girl Lost" or shorty owe you for ice?

^ That describes Nas' msuic post Illmatic down to a tee

Looks like I'm in the minority, but that's my honest opinion, and for the record, I rate Nas higher than Jay-Z

[Jdubem]

Nas technically won the rap beef,but Jay z won everything that happened after. Too bad Illmatic is still better than any album hes ever put out.

[Heffernan]

Dude. That's a horrible list. Lmao the day B real is a better rapper than jay-z is the day I give my car, and everything I own away lmao. Jokes man, jokes

[Heffernan]

I'll give you eminem...you can have lupe too. That's it out of that shitty list

[Slim Fiasco]

I think at face value, Ether sounds better, but when you analyse the two tracks, what did Nas say that really was a low blow to Jay?

"First Biggie's your man
Then you got the nerve to say that you better than B.I.G"

"You traded your soul for riches"

"Foxy got you hot cause you kept your face in her puss
What you think, you getting girls now cause of your looks"

"And Eminem murdered you on your own shit" - this still kinda sticks with Jay.

"How much of Biggie's rhymes is gonna come out your fat lips
Wanted to be on every last one of my classics"

Now these facts may not be as strong as Jay's, but then again I think Jay dismissed It Was Written, and I Am wasn't that bad. Plus, Nas's impact with Illmatic was bigger than Jay's with any of his albums, and Jay did switch his style up i.e. went from fast raps to a more acceptable style, which was perhaps influenced by Nas.

And it's not Jay's fault for how he looks, so that shouldn't matter, but I think people take the most offense from those kind of insults, because it's like a cold truth and you can't really do anything about it, lol. So the way Nas embarrassed Jay like that, I think that should count for something as well.

Furthermore, Nas dropped the arguably greatest Hip-Hop album when he was 20, while Jay didn't even have a debut by the time he was 26, so I think that makes Nas even more impressive.

[slimfan94]

You come here wanting get them you get opinions but when you get them you get all pissy.

[CrashBand]

You come here wanting get them you get opinions but when you get them you get all pissy.

It is quite a reach saying Jay isn't top 50 rappers of all time. Quite frankly it's arrogant and ignorant.
That's like saying Em or Nas isn't top 50 simply because you don't like them.

[slimfan94]

You come here wanting get them you get opinions but when you get them you get all pissy.

It is quite a reach saying Jay isn't top 50 rappers of all time. Quite frankly it's arrogant and ignorant.
That's like saying Em or Nas isn't top 50 simply because you don't like them.

No I understand that. I have Jigga in my top 5. But he's getting all pissy when he's gettin what he asked for, opinions.

[CrashBand]

No I understand that. I have Jigga in my top 5. But he's getting all pissy when he's gettin what he asked for, opinions.

I spose. I may get pissy too if someone said Em wasn't top 50 worthy and claimed he was overrated without really backing it up. But yeah, I spose.

Nas lost

Care to share why name? I'd be interested to hear your take

[Slim Fiasco]

"You's the fag model for Karl Kani Esco ads
Went from Nasty Nas to Esco's trash
Had a spark when you started but now you're just garbage
Fell from "top 10" to "not mentioned at all"
To your bodyguard's "Oochie Wally"'s verse better than yours"

"*****, you ain't live it
You witnessed it from your folks' pad
You scribbled it in your notepad and created your life
I showed you your first Tec, on tour with Large Professor
Then I heard your album about your Tec on the dresser
So yeah, I sampled your voice, you was using it wrong
You made it a hot line, I made it a hot song
And you ain't get a coin, *****, you was getting fucked then
I know who I paid, God - Serchlite publishing"

All shots that referenced to a point of Nas' history, no baseless facts and no playground insults or gay jokes. When Jay-Z said "fag" he backed it up with the model Nas did, every line there is a pun, it's a reference, while most of what Nas did was come up with insults showing exactly how angry he was in addition to a few good references like the Jaz-O line, the Renegade line, the Biggie line and the Rocafella line. While every line Jay has said referenced to a certain event.

But what Jay said was overblown so to say. For example:

"Went from Nasty Nas to Esco's trash" - Nas's Escobar persona wasn't trash at all, It Was Written is an amazing album. The Firm album was a flop, but it was more that the beats sucked, Nas had good verses, and he also had great guest appearances after Illmatic.

"Had a spark when you started but now you're just garbage" - Again, garbage is a too harsh of a word. Nastradamus sucked for sure, but I Am was decent, and since many of the songs leaked (I Am was supposed to be a double album, and some of the leaked songs ended up on the Lost Tapes, which is a great "album"), he was forced to do Nastradamus in a hurry, which makes the whole situation at least a bit excusable. And Nas didn't have a spark when he started, he was on top of the rap game, with Illmatic being cited as the greatest rap album by many. "Had a spark" is this time an understatement.

"So yeah, I sampled your voice, you was using it wrong
You made it a hot line, I made it a hot song" - How in the hell was Nas using his voice wrong, when The World Is Yours is one of the best Hip-Hop songs, and it's IMO certainly better than Dead Presidents? And the fact remains that Jay did use Nas's voice, which means that he appreciated it. And by saying that "he was using it wrong" he was being hypocritical since he obviously thought that Nas was using it right. And again, it wasn't just a hot line, it was a whole hot song.

"I showed you your first Tec, on tour with Large Professor
Then I heard your album about your Tec on the dresser" - That's true about Jay showing his gun to Nas, but Nas did have a tec in his dresser. He just got one later, it's not that he lied about having it or that he wouldn't have got one if Jay didn't show him his earlier.

Takeover is definitely a great diss, and it's a better song overall, but I think that many of the lines were overstatements. Just saying. And I also think that H to the Omo was better than Super Ugly or what have you.

[Slim Fiasco]

I can agree with you actually mate, but I took it as a diss track, some people will go further than they actually think because of personal grudges, I don't think Jay-Z actually thinks Nas is garbage and hell I think he was a closet Nas listener during their beef and same thing with Nas. But since this is a beef in my opinion overstatements are allowed, but basically I can't argue this tbh.

And word Supa Ugly wasn't that good of a diss, probably the worst out of Jay's Nas disses.

Yeah, I guess overstatements are allowed, and if nothing else, Jay phrased his ones in a perfect way. And I forgot to agree that, Jay deserves props for saying a lot about Nas in just one verse, while Nas needed a whole song to address the issue. And outside of that, I think the diss to Prodigy was the best one in the song:

"I don't care if you Mobb Deep, I hold triggers to crews
You little fuck, I got money stacks bigger than you
When I was pushing weight, back in '88
You was a ballerina, I got the pictures, I seen ya
Then you dropped "Shook Ones", switched your demeanor
Well - we don't believe you, you need more people"

That was hilarious, plus an awesome quotable with that last line. And the last line of the song was dope as well, with them literally getting half a bar, lol:

"And all you other cats throwing shots at Jigga
You only get half a bar - fuck y'all ni**as"

So yeah, if you add the amazing beat to this, Takeover is a song that does much more than Ether, and what I actually like about their beef is that it brought out the best out of them. The difference that that made was of course more obvious with Nas.

[sadcommunity]

take over is dope .. ether also .. i listen to both .. i hate when people hate on great rappers .. i cant stand that .. of course u have the right to prefer one over the other .. but to bash a legend rapper just to prove that your favorute one is better .. that's wack

[Elision]

Nas

[sadcommunity]

a lot of you know this already prolly .. but eminem made a kinda tribute to both " ether " and " take over "

[dead prez]

Basically for everything KillahBee said, all Ether contained was gay jokes and making fun of Jay's looks, while being hilarious, he was only scratching the surface, the level Jay touched with Takeover was much deeper:

Oh it contained gay jokes and the like but beneath that lay actual hard hitting disses that resonated with jay on a personal level, they weren't just there to make you lol. Which if they did than you aren't actually paying close attention to what he's saying.

How about the constant allegiations of Jay z being a humongous dick rider and biter who's whole style along with many at the time was birthed by Nas, to him constantly name dropping Nas whether through the use of sampling or actual rapping lines on EVERY one of his albums for a while. He was constantly portrayed as a groupie jockrider all the way from Jaz O (changing his rap name to Jay z), Big Daddy Kane's protege, Irv Gotti's partner in crime, to constantly being on friendly terms with Big without even daring to challenge him for his title of KONY while he was alive to the constant biting of his lyrics which would make Big himself turn over in his grave.

"You's the fag model for Karl Kani Esco ads

First off so what if he was a model all he did was get payed for posing with hip hop clothing I don't see how this is really a diss, that and Big Daddy Kane himself was actually a model as well for this. You're acting like Nas was recieving a huge facial in some gay porno mag. This also further accentuates the fact that Jay'z has an ugly mug who couldn't apply for the same position even if he tried.

Went from Nasty Nas to Esco's trash

Nasty Nas was an awful name so good riddance.

Had a spark when you started but now you're just garbage
Fell from "top 10" to "not mentioned at all"
To your bodyguard's "Oochie Wally"'s verse better than yours"

Nas pretty much proved this wrong by coming back with stillmatic which imo isn't even one of his better albums aside from highlights in it like One Mic and Ether, and IWW is damn good album other than a bunch of filler and beats selection.

"*****, you ain't live it
You witnessed it from your folks' pad
You scribbled it in your notepad and created your life
I showed you your first Tec, on tour with Large Professor
Then I heard your album about your Tec on the dresser
So yeah, I sampled your voice, you was using it wrong
You made it a hot line, I made it a hot song
And you ain't get a coin, *****, you was getting fucked then
I know who I paid, God - Serchlite publishing"

Slim Fiasco already responded to this appropriately in good fashion though if you want I could respond to it.

All shots that referenced to a point of Nas' history, no baseless facts and no playground insults or gay jokes. When Jay-Z said "fag" he backed it up with the model Nas did, every line there is a pun, it's a reference, while most of what Nas did was come up with insults showing exactly how angry he was in addition to a few good references like the Jaz-O line, the Renegade line, the Biggie line and the Rocafella line. While every line Jay has said referenced to a certain event.

All Takeover does is Jay falsely asserting his dominance over Nas while constantly rehashing Nas fell off (which Nas pretty much proved wrong with all subsequent albums post stillmatic) and him showing his first tech to Nas or some garbage like that.

The Jaz O disses and Biggie disses are extremely relevant and shouldn't be glossed over and swept under the rug like they were no big deals. I've already explained earlier that Jay constantly bites big while riding off the coat tails of Jaz o to even allegedly naming himself after him, oh and don't forget Jay z naming his album Blueprint when Krs-one already had an album called Blueprint, DAMN Jay how many homages are you gonna pay to someone before it becomes biting?

And Takeover was only one verse that contained all of these killer-lines in compared to a whole blown-out diss with 3 verses that is Ether.

And Nas didn't even really drop the bomb on Jay until the 3rd verse the 1st verse was just pure hype similar to Takeover's with the 2nd verse being an appetizer.

And plus, compared to how angry and aggressive Nas went with Jay-Z, Takeover's flow was the good ol' laid back "I ain't mad but I'll destroy your career with no effort.

Of course Nas is gonna come all aggressive at Jay since Jay already launched the first attack on him do you expect him to be all nonchalant smking an L while making this track? Add in his previous misfortune like his mother passing away and him being under the radar fora few years, he took the as oppurtunity to seize.

In addition to the breakdown of Nas' career, which was genius. And it's funny how Nas claimed he gave Jay-Z a "style to run with", while their flows and subject matter aren't even remotely similar.

No he doesn't have Nas' exact flow and style but Nas did usher in a new era of rapping when everyone was either fast paced Rakim style rapping or slow paced West Coast rapping, he brought in a new flow laced with internals but wasn't in your face nor slow g funk rapping. Which btw Jay z used to completely run with the Big Daddy Kane style rapping before the birth of illmatic.

In addition to the last verse that delivered the "don't fuck with me" message with quotable lines

"Do not bark up that trExplainee, that tree will fall on you
I don't know why your advisers ain't forewarn you
Please, not Jay, he's not for play
I don't slack a minute, all that thug rapping and gimmicks
I will end it, all that yapping be finished
You are not deep, you made your bed now sleep
Don't make me expose you to them folks that don't know you
***** I know you well, all the stolen jew-els"

This is just basic brag rapping what's so special about it hell it's too ambigious to even really leave a mark.

Yeah, I think Jay-Z clearly won that beef, in addition to fucking Nas' ex, and in addition to The Blueprint 2 and Supa Ugly.

Supa Ugly was an awful diss track and a sign of desperation from Jay z when he's already been flattened by Nas that he has to resort to mentioning his wife because he has no other option but felt he had to one up Nas.

The only aspect Jay-Z lost that beef was when his mom forced him to apologize, that was a win for Nas and a hilarious L for Jay-Z in terms of "beefing".

So yeah, this is my pick on the subject.

And him crying about Ether as well as making supa ugly he automatically lost for that diss track.