Sticky Fingaz talks past with Dre, Em & 50.

[Francesco]

Let's drop the Busta convo cuz at this point non e of us know weather he was dropped or left
regarding Snoop, this is the 1st time 2001 was even brought up in this, so when you said Chronic i thought ou meant the 1st one, but even if you meant 2001, you would be an idiot, Hitman had more features than Snoop, and Hitmann hasn't been heard from since, so Snoop being a legend by time 2001 dropped is irrelevant, cuz the album you meant where Snoop should have been paid for as a collab lbum, was the original Chronic, which dropped in 1992, right after "Deep Cover"
and Before "Deep Cover" nobody heard of Snoop, exept maybe a few ppl in Caliso again, giving Snoop a "collab album" credit would have been retarded at that time.
Regarding Obie, cool he had a platinum and Gold Album, but he still was a dumbass for locking himself away to SLEEP, when Jimkmy sent him out to do a radio show for Promo, If your boss sends you out to do work, you don't sleep instead, you get fired for that, Obie made a mistake, Jimmy was doing what a boss does with their lazy employee's.
Regarding Rakim, Jimmy again made the right choice, look where Rakim's music is at now, he dropped an album in 2009, only sold 12,000 copies 1st week, Rakim is dope but nobody is buyin his albums,

I lived in New York in 2006, i hung out with mostly skateboarders in New York, i left after 6 months for personal reasons, i won't get into that.

and LL got a new album? i gotta go check the info on that cuz Def Jam's promo abilities are so wack i didn't even know LL even talked about a new album.

You came really bad the last time, with the low point comments on Snoop & Wu Tang so you should have just left it right there.
You're wrong again... Busta was officially dropped & even thanked Interscope for giving him his album after been dropped.
''Deep Cover'' was Snoop's first big record, he was really really young back then, of course people would not know who he is prior to it. The first time I said BOTH Dre albums, which means lyric by lyric Snoop had both albums on his back. Dre & Jimmy knew it of course. It doesn't matter Hit had more records than Snoop on ''2001'', Snoop just like on the ''Chronic'', was on the 2 monster singles on ''2001'', plus many ohter songs.
Thanks from bringing Hit though, he supposed to come right after ''2001'' (Watch closely the end of the video for ''Forget about Dre'' & you'll know what I'm talking about) Dre said his album is done, hot & coming & then Jimmy dropped him only 'cuz an LA magazine labeled Hit ''boring''. ''2001'' came in late 1999 & Hit album supposed to come in the summer of 2000. Dre says it on ''Forgot about Dre''.
The huge difference is... Snoop was having the albums on his back along Dre while Hit was only contributing on ''2001'' as a part of Dre introducing him to the public, getting him ready for his solo that supposed to come right after.
Again, by the time Jimmy cut Snoop, he was the undoubted king on the West Coast, all the rest is irrelevant.
Snoop never asked about collabo credits for those 2 albums though, there was an official collabo album that supposed to come after ''2001'....' plus Dre always gave him the credit as they are a duo on his albums anyway. You should know that.

Jimmy doesn't personally sends people to radio shows, or deal with artists of Obie's caliber. Jimmy only deals with the top artists & still has middle men for the most part.
Anyway, even if Obie didn't go to a radio show with whatever excuse, it's not a great reason to get dropped from a label he's contributed to. This is more than ridiculous. It didn't hurt EM's career of course but it definitely made Shady Records weaker, right there.

Rakim sold 12k on his own in 2009... Well, what would have he sold in like 2002 under Dre? We shouldn't even bother to think about it... Soulja Boy sold less than that on his last album & he's 20 years old. Chier Keef sold a little bit more than that, still he's even younger. Well those two are rappers Jimmy signed to Interscope, ones Dre would never sign to the 'Math, or Em to Shady. Good look, huh?

Well, you hanging out with skateboarders (no disrespect) at least explains your basic knowledge & ridiculous claims.

Def Jam promo abilities are wack? Dude you're sinking.
Rick Ross is one of the fakest rappers of all time, he's semi wack & Def Jam not only promote any of his albums really well but pushes forward his whole ridiculous clique too. Jada was forgotten, then he came on Def Jam & did 150 first week, Jeezy had great sales all the way with all albums... a vet like Nas just hit big coming outta nowhere, G.O.O.D is on fire, 2 Chains fucking murdered it outta nowere... What else you would want from a label nowadays? All the legends stay tight in their roster for years not getting dropped just out of respect even when they don't deliver albums... Redman, Meth, Ghostface, The Roots, etc. etc.
About LL... his album info was in EVERY popular hip-hop web site just recently yet again as they changed the title & the artwork which made them push the it back with 2 weeks or something.

It's good you get the point & leave the subjects you really embarrass yourself but then you're coming back with more confusing claims, info or whatever. Interscope have been really bad at anything they do for their hip-hop section, ridiculously bad. I guess you shouldn't even question it when so many of their own artists have been heavily complaining from them... just get over it, it's something obvious.

[Chet Starr]

francesco, don't shoot a arrow at me, but I totally disagree about Def Jam. I can find many interviews of artist complaining, & complaining, & complaining about Def Jam promo abilities

-hides in fear-

[Francesco]

francesco, don't shoot a arrow at me, but I totally disagree about Def Jam. I can find many interviews of artist complaining, & complaining, & complaining about Def Jam promo abilities

-hides in fear-

I definitely won't shoot an arrow at you bruh I respect your opinion & I definitely agree with you a lot of artists have complained about a lot on Def Jam over the years or on any label in general. There are always people who'd complain on a major label, esp. in one with such gigantic roster.
Nas complained too, even did an open letter to them like a couple of years ago or something, but still his last album hit big commercially, didn't it?
Nas would've been dropped from Intescope (if he was on it) right after that ''Distant relatives'' album so he couldn't have even had time to complain from them while still on the label.
There was a lotta complaints when Jay Z was the president too & most were on point. Jay used most of the promo money for Roc Nation. That's why he was removed from been that.

My point was that statistically they have actually been pretty good esp. as of late, you could see it with the sales of their current roster. Sales for the last couple of years are pretty good & even surprised me. The argument was mostly how they keep their roster tight & don't drop people who've contributed to Def Jam right after their sales decrease which Jimmy does all the time. Def Jam mostly drop people when there is beef involved & money disputes, never solely by low sales. It is the right thing 'cuz the list of albums they've had is endless & impressive in both quality & sales.
Basically if EM's not on Interscope today,(as he could sell wherever he goes) Interscope's hip-hop section's sales would be way less than mediocre, couldn't even compete to way smaller labels than Def Jam.

[Man In The Mirror]

"***** that take no for an answer, get told no
Yeah, I been told no, but it was more like no, no, no"

- Funny as fuck.

Life's a bitch, met her, fuck you if you let her
Better come better than better to be a competitor
This vet is ahead of the shit is all redder
You deader and deader, a medic instead-a the cheddars and credda
Settle vendetta one metal beretta from ghetto to ghetto
Evidence, nope, never leave a shred-of

- All that shit rhymes, and makes sense

I got the soul of every rapper in me, love me or hate me
My moms got raped by the industry and made me

- Brutal and ironiclly smart.

Ect.......

[Francesco]

^ It's an incredible verse & it's been getting huge recognition by many great rappers from day one. People have joked many times Sticky murdered Em on his own shit & that ironically he had the best verse on that masterpiece of an album.

[Willy]

You guys are nuts. Here's a good breakdown by VenomBlackViper (RIP):

Can someone explain to me what is so good about Sticky Fingaz verse, unless by killed you mean he literally butchered that song in which case i'd say he split the job with RBX. Both of them had horrible verses, but since people defend Sticky more lets examine his verse.

***** that take no for an answer, get told no
Yeah I been told no but it was more like, "No, no, no!!!"

clever line, yes. lazy rhyming, yes.

Life a bitch that'll fuck you if you let her
Better come better than better to be a competitor

cliche lifes a bitch line, corny self improvement line.

this vet is ahead of,
The shit is all redder, you deader and deader
A medic instead-a the cheddars and credda
Settle vendetta one metal beretta from ghetto to ghetto
Evidence? NOPE! Never leave a shred-of

so this vet is ahead of red shit, where the fuck does a medic come from? maybe he should have mentioned a beretta first & then the medic so it atleast made what he was trying to say more clear. also extremely lazy & forced rhyming.

I got the soul of every rapper in me, love me or hate me
My moms got raped by the industry and made me

1st line is filler, second line is a good line but once again horrible rhyming.

I'm the illest ***** ever, I told you
I get more pussy than them dyke bitches Total

illest ***** ever? not even fucking close this is like Lil Wayne calling himself the best rapper alive. Outdated pop culture reference, check. More lazy forced rhyming, check.

Want beef, *****? PBBT! You better dead that shit
My name should be "Can't-Believe-That-Nigga-Said-That-Shit"

Yes I do want beef, this wackness is making me hungry. You forgot a word, it should be "Can't-Believe-That-Nigga-Said-That-Wack-Shit" . Also once again horrible rhyming.

Probably sayin, "He ain't a killer", but I'm killin myself
Smoke death, fuck bitches raw, on the kitchen floor

this killin myself bar doesn't even rhyme with anything & it's an all around shitty line. fuck bitches raw on the kitchen floor is the first line that I not only like but also has good rhyming because of how he flows it.

So think what I'ma do to you, have done to you
Got ***** in my hood who'd do that shit for a blunt or two

so are you gonna do it or are you just gonna have it done? make up your fucking mind.
do it for a blunt? you mean crackheads Image
good job finally starting to rhyme impressively though

What you wanna do, cocksuckers? We glock busters
'Til the cops cuff us, we'll start ruckus and drop blockbusters
'Round the clock hustlers, you cannot touch us

first 3 bars I have no problem with, good rhyming & it's clear what he's saying. Why wasn't his entire verse like this.

I'm gettin wires ***** wantin me dead, wantin my head
You think it could be somethin I said?

yeah maybe you annoyed them with your wackness.

Overall he had the good 3 bars, a couple good rhymes & a couple good lines in between a bunch of shit lines that were terribly rhymed. Now tell me how is this considered to be great and how do some people think this piece of shit is better then Eminems verse?

[PAINKILLƎR]

Yeah that Sticky Fingaz verse sucks major ass.

[12characters]

I never thought it was that bad, even after reading VBV's posts (Satire ended up schooling him on one or two things anyways), but people are crazy if they they think he had the best verse in the song.

[Francesco]

this vet is ahead of,
The shit is all redder, you deader and deader
A medic instead-a the cheddars and credda
Settle vendetta one metal beretta from ghetto to ghetto
Evidence? NOPE! Never leave a shred-of

so this vet is ahead of red shit, where the fuck does a medic come from? maybe he should have mentioned a beretta first & then the medic so it atleast made what he was trying to say more clear. also extremely lazy & forced rhyming.

I won't bother to talk about the whole thing... I'll just let you know at one single part how nothing was even understood before it was talked about.

The 1st line is about A VETERAN THAT IS AHEAD OF (whoever enemy)
The 2nd line is about how somebody (whoever enemy) bleeds to death, not about red shit
Pretty smart to use REDDER as more blood running & DEADER & DEADER as the process of dying
The 3d line is NOT about a medic that came out of nowhere... it means the (whoever enemy) who is dead now is gonna be generally examined by a medic instead of getting money (cheddar) or credit (credda) So since the medic is actually not on the scene it's ok to leave the berreta for the next line.
The 4th line adds to it like beefs/revenge is only settled by the gun from ghetto to ghetto
The 5th line keeps adding how Sticky never leaves a shred of evidence after settling his beefs/revenge

It's pretty well put overall... just like the rest of the verse. I mean if y'all still don't like it, it's cool.

[Willy]

I'm not convinced. "The shit is all redder" sounds like it was written by a troubled high-schooler. The rest sounds like someone who just learned how to rhyme. Just because it makes sense (debatable) does not mean it is good.

[Francesco]

I'm not convinced. "The shit is all redder" sounds like it was written by a troubled high-schooler. The rest sounds like someone who just learned how to rhyme. Just because it makes sense (debatable) does not mean it is good.

Actually it is good overall because it is a certified classic verse by the best hip-hop critics that could do it... the simple fact so many legendary rappers gave mad props to Sticky for that verse & EM needed a lotta time to re write his verse after Sticky did his tells all.

Street slang have no boundaries & as a matter of fact ''redder'' is an often used word even if it's about 'Bloods' & it would mean someone is heavier on the streets than other, or higher in ranks... overall it was pretty clever to use it like it would mean bleeding, but still you or whoever can debate on it or hate it all y'all want.

Ironically to your point, 99% of the rappers, including Eminem ARE ex troubled high schoolers indeed. Overall we talk about a hip-hop verse, not about a literature project.

From what I see though, you don't even understand half of what's going on in that verse so it is normal for you to think it's bad or that it doesn't makes sense.

[sbolli1]

"Sick, sick dreams of picnic scenes
Two kids, sixteen with M-16's and ten clips each
And them shits reach through six kids each
And Slim gets blamed in Bill Clint's speech to fix these streets"

That part alone shits over Sticky Fingaz's entire verse.

[Francesco]

"Sick, sick dreams of picnic scenes
Two kids, sixteen with M-16's and ten clips each
And them shits reach through six kids each
And Slim gets blamed in Bill Clint's speech to fix these streets"

That part alone shits over Sticky Fingaz's entire verse.

I agree EM's verse is dope but that doesn't mean Sticky's bad, not to mention it's not even realistic when people say it's total trash or whatever they said it was.

[Wreck]

Sticky Fingaz's verse on 'Remember Me' is atrocious. Pure suck. Fucking sucks ass.

Seems a little extreme.

I would hope that Sticky Fingaz would do great on Aftermath, but it's always so difficult to be successful over there. You either make a huge impact, or you never drop. So while I feel like he could have done good things with Dre, I'm also worried that he wouldn't have gotten the kind of treatment that he required. In a perfect world though, that would have worked out great.

I get why he went for the deal with more money (an extra 300k is nothing to laugh at) but he's talking about an advance, right? Generally, when someone says they got a deal for "x amount of money", they're talking about their advance. So, to me...since I would have to pay that back anyway, I would want to go with the label that would be more likely to allow me to make the most, not necessarily give the most up front.

That bit about Suge Knight trying to fuck Dr. Dre over by naming that shitty compilation from Death Row Chronic 2000 brought back memories of that whole mess. In the end though, 2001 is considered a classic, and that petty move by Death Row is long forgotten by just about everyone.

This. Totally agree. People don't realize that when musicians say "sign a deal for x amount of dollars" is that it's their advance, not the money they'll make off of record sales. Very common error for people to think that. And Dre and Jimmy Iovine are impossible to work with, musically, & professionally, respectively. I'm a perfectionist but Dr. Dre is ridiculous. So many good artists signed, or were about to be signed to Interscope/Aftermath, that never had albums dropped there.

And Jimmy Iovine, like someone mentioned earlier in this thread, doesn't want anything to do with an artist financially, great artist or whack artist aside, if they aren't making him millions. Joell Ortiz was, and still is a great lyricist & artist, but he wasn't as good as Em obviously, so no album drop by him when he was signed to their roster. Ridiculous. Not that they should sign whack artists to their labels, but they need to stop & realize how many good artists are out there, and stop thinking about every nickle when they're rich, at least Jimmy Iovine does. Dre's problems are more so musically, his tolerance level of perfectionism is ridiculous. Like worst than Em's I think. Let's see, how long have we been waiting for Detox to drop now? He releases, or comes close to releasing singles for the album- Kush, Under Pressure, etc. but never actually releases the album itself, due to his crazy perfectionism.

For you's a FOOL D.R. (Death Row) Snoop Dogg - ''Still D.R.E.

Btw, unless you're joking, he's not referring to Death Row there, he's saying DR as in Dr. Dre (Dr. as in doctor, a shortened version of his stage name).

[Francesco]

@Wreck
I totally agree with your first-two paragraphs... That's what I meant. It's not only about millions, esp. when you have EM & 50 doing them millions back then & esp. when some rappers Jimmy dropped or held for a long time had made millions for him anyway (Obie, Busta, Lloyd Banks). That's why I gave an example with Def Jam 'cuz they've always looked for those cats that sell millions but they never drop rappers from their roster (especially legends in the game) after their sales start to decrease. Jimmy will always get his money, he's pretty smart if we talk about that... but he definitely butchered Aftermath/Shady/G-Unit after that in house clearance. He'd always prefer (esp. at the time) 4 albums from EM & 50, rather than 2 of theirs & 2 of their artists 'cuz their artists could never sell as them. Ironically though 50 came as an underdog & a basic artist at Shady but still built a whole empire doing tens of millions for Jimmy.


You're wrong in the third paragraph though... Check this out:

(Snoop)
Right back up in ya muthfuckin ass
'95 plus four pennies
Add that shit up, (Dre left Death Row in '95, adding 4 is '99 when ''2001'' came)
D-R-E right back on top of thangs
Smoke some with your dog
No stress, no seeds, no stems, no sticks!
Some of that real sticky icky
Ooo Wee, put it in the air
For you's a fool D.R.

Snoop addresses exactly what Abram was talking about previously in this thread... the Suge/Death Row's album ''Chronic 2000'' that came a little before Dre's ''2001''... Initially Dre's album was called ''Chronic 2000'', then Suge stole the title to fuck Dre over & released all stars album with that title right before Dre's came, which obviously made Dre rename his album to ''Chronic 2001'' & even made him drop the ''Chronic'' making it just ''2001'' as for the official title. Like Abram said, Suge's album had some momentum & it looked like he could have fucked over Dre, but only until ''2001'' came & put Dre again by far on top of the things.
If you've followed closely what was going down back then you'd know it. As a matter a fact Suge had to come with ''Too gangsta for radio'' after ''2001'' 'cuz apparently it killed his label (what was left from the real one) forever, without even directly going at them.
Snoop has never called Dr.Dre - D.R. exactly 'cuz of Death Row. It's either Dr.Dre, Dre, Doc or D.R.E.
Basically in the outro Snoop says Dre comes on top & fucks them back over, for which they are fools. If you look at the lyrics in the whole song, even though indirectly all the way it is all about that.