Eminem's production is currently overrated

[Just Silver]

It's very overrated i think he may get unique sound kits through dre?

[M-Pyre]

I'm a producer and I'm telling you right now, kanye's new album, is absolute garbage. no one in there right mind would think that shit sounds good. it's all hype and controversy and if anyone happens to like it it's because they got brainwashed into thinking it's artistic expression or whatever.

kanye has his own head up his ass and is looking to see what he can get away with.

[_Hawk_]

I'm a producer and I'm telling you right now, kanye's new album, is absolute garbage. no one in there right mind would think that shit sounds good. it's all hype and controversy and if anyone happens to like it it's because they got brainwashed into thinking it's artistic expression or whatever.

kanye has his own head up his ass and is looking to see what he can get away with.

But this explains perfectly why music is so subjective.

On first listen of the album I hated it for the same reasons you express.
I have listened to it multiple times and I enjoy it a lot more, most likely for similar reasons that people like death metal. There is something about it that appeals to me. I love the moment in the album when Kanye and Frank Ocean come in as the beat changes in New Slaves and then progresses into Hold My Liquor. I don't care if there are technical reasons for it sounding crap, I still enjoy it.

I would like to add that I do not fall into Kanye's so called 99% who need Yeezus to save them from commercialism by enjoy the album whilst recognising its flaws. It is probably one of his worst albums and I would hate it to do well at the Grammys, however I can still enjoy it.
Indeed, I cannot stand his fans who love everything that he puts out. If he recorded himself shitting all over a Richard Dawkins sample, his fans and critics alike would no doubt praise the conceptual genius of attacking science with nature.

Bottom line: can we not let this thread derail into an assessment of Yeezus? I simply used it as a comparison point, and whilst Kanye does not deserve the majority of the production credits, I think the production is mostly a lot better than anything I have heard Em produce recently. That is just my opinion. I don't want to hear Em over acid-rock-rap-electro beats, but at the same time I will find a whole album of looped, simple beats rather boring.


The main point I want to use from the Yeezus production to compare with Em is the way no one track on Yeezus is linear. The songs on it appear to constantly morph (I would say evolve but that would assume that they then improve); the beat changes and the mood progresses into new territories. I would love to hear this on an Em album. It would be awesome for him to start a track off with a seemingly normal beat which slowly gets more and more menacing until he reaches a final crescendo.

A lot of you are saying you would love to hear Em over TES sounding beats again. Why? I have TES and I love it, but I don't want to hear it again. I actually want Eminem to make something left-field of what he has done before. I have a seemingly goofy album of his which display mature undertones far beyond his years; I have a dark work of genius flawed by his label's want of a pop single; I have a rock-rap album, a drugged one, a rape one and a seemingly commercial one; now I want something more, something different, something new and intriguing.

If Em really has produced most of his next album, I really want it to be a breath of fresh air for him. Whilst I love his skits, if I see Steve Berman on there I think I will vomit. Eminem has been there ang got the t-shirt. It is time for him to surprise the world again.

[_Hawk_]

OK Amadeo.

First of all I have never said Rabbit Run was amazing lyrically. So you are wrong.

Secondly, your petty remarks that I apparently 'suck with words' are entirely ludicrous. The world was balanced in a bi-polar relationship between the USA and the USSR in the Cold War. My example is entirely sound. Kindly fuck off and learn your way around the English language before you bring me up on my use of words.


What you are putting across is an OPINION. Just because someone does not conform to your opinion does not automatically make you correct. Whenever someone expresses that 'Eminem is the greatest' they are expressing an opinion which not everyone will share. For me a great artist has to have an established career. Whether he has maintained that standard is questionable, but with Eminem in mind, he displayed impressive lyrical skills in Relapse through imaginative rhyming, and on Recovery he produced some tracks which broadened his fan base and landed incredible sale figures. The bottom line here is that there are so many avenues for assessing a rapper's greatness that it is impossible to narrow it down to any categories which won't be entirely subjective. Judging a rapper on sales, awards or the like is not the best way of assessing them, but then again it is quite obvious that in this day and age the lyrics do not (unfortunately) sell a track entirely. Eminem expressed this poignantly on Syllables.
Consequently one cannot judge a rapper as being the greatest in a short-term way. If Em had died post-Lose Yourself his post-8-Mile regression would most likely never have been predicted.
In arguing that assessment has to be made entirely qualitatively, you then limit the comparisons of 'greatest-ever' to the present, thus devaluing the past. That is not how it works. Thus in 2002, someone would suggest that Eminem was the greatest ever, but when he came out in 1999 they may have said he could be. In the same vain that same person now might say "I was right in 2002: Eminem is the greatest ever".
So perhaps Kendrick is the best given his short space of time in the limelight, however I would never say that he is the greatest to ever rap as I have not heard enough from him to judge. This is the most logical way of assessing something. To argue that Hitler was the most evil man in history (note I do not agree that he was), his tenure had to come to an end first because it is unfair to compare ongoing examples with completed episodes.

I picked John Lennon because he was not a good lyricist. You really cannot read, can you? The Lennon example is a testament to the meaning behind what he was saying. I am not saying a song has to be emotional, but its cult value is hinged on the see-saw which balances lyrical quality, rhyming ability, delivery and message.
Eminem has made tracks which tick all of these boxes, thus resulting in near fault-less tracks.

Regarding Kanye and your critque of New Slaves, it goes to the concluding point that music is subjective. Me liking New Slaves does not make me a simple person in so much as a person is simple for enjoying Lose Yourself's vibe. People find different reasons to enjoy songs. I listen to Eminem for very different reasons than I listen to Kanye. This topic is about production, and you have completely derailed it by attempting to compare the two on a more general basis.
That was not what I was intending to do.

What I was showing is that Eminem operates within his own sphere within rap, whilst to really progress as an artist he has to go into new musical areas (whilst still, obviously, making good records).
You cannot seem to comprehend the difference between a rapper and an artist. Does it have to be spelled out to you? A rapper excels within their own genre, whilst an artist is involved in a broad spectrum of activities related to creating art. Art. Rap is an art form, yes, but in creating an inherent difference between a rapper and an artist we are highlighting that one is more technical whilst the other operates on a broader level. The key is in the broadness of it, as an artist can cross genres, whilst a rapper remains relatively confined.
The two are easy to muddle, but it is easier to appreciate the fact that an artist alludes to an all-round package. If you still cannot understand this you are not only obtuse, you are also retarded.


I prefer style over substance? To make that statement I would have had to have said that I prefer Niggas in Paris to Kim. That is not true at all. You are clutching at straws to make that argument. I maintained in my previous post that I have broad musical taste, so you cannot reprimand me for liking music that you don't.

I do not listen to music for 'cool sounds'. The lyrics combine with the beat to create music. Take away the beat and you have poetry (or in Kanye's example an amateurs attempt at).

This highlights your inability to compute the nature of something so simple as debating Eminem's recent production skills. I stated in my first post that if Eminem improves his production game, his music will be a lot better. Sound axiomatic, but it is what I would love to see.

[Almostlity]

Eminems production has always been overrated. #fact










Ye won #YEEZUS #1

[Trimss]

Eminems production has always been overrated. #fact










Ye won #YEEZUS #1

Ye didn't produce a single beat on Yeezus

[Evil Twin]

Eminems production has always been overrated. #fact










Ye won #YEEZUS #1

Ye didn't produce a single beat on Yeezus

Schooled

[_Hawk_]

Ye won #YEEZUS #1

Stop coming to this section to add nothing but attempt to troll and cause a ruckus.

I'm giving you a point next time.

Thank you.

But this whole thread has really derailed.

[CanadaPure]

ITT: Big words being used to try and appear more intelligent than each other.

[sbolli1]

I got a better idea:

How about you both just admit and accept your general pretentious doucheyness, and we get the thread back on topic.

[Whitefox]

Off-Jesus Christ, waiting for Hawk's response-topic

[CanadaPure]

I got a better idea:

How about you both just admit and accept your general pretentious doucheyness, and we get the thread back on topic.

Or how about you jump off a bridge, moron?

Topics change naturally when you have a discussion with someone.

You've moved from actually talking about Ems production to insulting his grasp of English, stay on topic. It doesn't matter if the topic changes a little bit, but try and stay somewhat related to what the thread is about.

[Whitefox]

Actually, Hawk is the first one who started insults. He called Amadeo "fucking retarded", "pig headed" and started blaming him that he think rapper can be considered as an artist, then he moved on some "opinion" shit which isnt connected with production at all.

[Almostlity]

Ye won #YEEZUS #1

Stop coming to this section to add nothing but attempt to troll and cause a ruckus.

I'm giving you a point next time.

fuck outta here

[cityfan31]

Eminems production has always been overrated. #fact










Ye won #YEEZUS #1

Ye didn't produce a single beat on Yeezus