God Damn!

[,-,'-{Bar}-',-,]

too much to quote but i agree with some points, but im also pissed that some of you are reading one part of a post and fogetting the rest

also somehting people didnt pick up on was, eminem may have influences more non hip hop fans into listening to hip hop, but now them fans only listen to shady/aftermath music. NOTHING ELSE, and then with the knowledge of 2 record labels (maybe 3 they probly listen to g-unit) they try to state eminem is a legend in hip hop, has 3 classics album and impact music worldwide because of this.

so if you bring 5000 bias opinions into a argument, how can it be a fair result ?

and i aint saying on the whole fact that i wasnt one of them, i listened to tupac then emienm got me into rap and i only listened to shady/aftermath and some other artists (xzibit, g-unit) then once i got the iternet i checked into it more and starting learning more and more about the music, then i reliesed that the true hip hop artists dont make music to sell, i learnt alot of things but i still hardly know shit, so when i say soemthign its my opinion, but eveyrone here is taking the millions of bias people's opinion as fact, when thats just bullshit

also @ tash, man if i aint right in saying you went through a small change on this forum, you thought eminem was god then i told ya bout papoose and you had very small but wider view than before, trust me tash there is thousands of artists you got to listen to that will open your view more and more, and i aint syaing ive listened to them all i havent, but i love looking for them

[Tash8]

yea, bar i agree with you and yea thanks for that, now i listen to like 20 diff artists and only of them is in shady which eminem

but when you say he didn't make an impact, i dont get that....

and i'm out of this anyways, i thought this was gonna be just a cool debate where everyone puts down their but you guys keep turning debates into name-calling arguments.

[AspirinE]

but when you say he didn't make an impact, i dont get that....

-_- ... do u understand the difference between commercial success and musical impact?

[Tash8]

but when you say he didn't make an impact, i dont get that....

-_- ... do u understand the difference between commercial success and musical impact?

yes i do, the fact that he had huge commerical success does not mean he didn't have a musical impact as well, maybe his commerical success overshadowed his musical impact, you might not see it now, but this quoting you "after a generation or 2" you will see it.

[mart85]

yeah I agree Bar

but it's funny cause I feel like my first message started this whole discussion, while I think I was juste stating facts, maybe I wasn't clear enough, I'll just say it differently...

Up until maybe 2003, there were a lot of serious music critics (by serious critics I mean people with credibility, not those who reviews a Britney Spears's album in a teen magazine) that compared Eminem to other great people in music like John Lennon, Bob Dylan, Jimmy Hendrix, Kurt Cobain etc... and analyzed his albums like any other music album, and a lot of those critics considered some of Eminem's albums to be masterpieces... And what I was saying is that even if they're not "real hip hop fans", their opinions are still valuable to me, but from a music expert point of view... that's it... Maybe I didn't say it clearly enough in my first post, cause I didn't read the whole thing Tash posted, so I thought it was written by a serious critic... but that's what I meant basically

[,-,'-{Bar}-',-,]

yeah I agree Bar

but it's funny cause I feel like my first message started this whole discussion, while I think I was juste stating facts, maybe I wasn't clear enough, I'll just say it differently...

Up until maybe 2003, there were a lot of serious music critics (by serious critics I mean people with credibility, not those who reviews a Britney Spears's album in a teen magazine) that compared Eminem to other great people in music like John Lennon, Bob Dylan, Jimmy Hendrix, Kurt Cobain etc... and analyzed his albums like any other music album, and a lot of those critics considered some of Eminem's albums to be masterpieces... And what I was saying is that even if they're not "real hip hop fans", their opinions are still valuable to me, but from a music expert point of view... that's it... Maybe I didn't say it clearly enough in my first post, cause I didn't read the whole thing Tash posted, so I thought it was written by a serious critic... but that's what I meant basically

^ yeh i agree with that, that before his music was getting taking into classic status just as music

but i think also the only reason these critics even came across eminem's music or even went to review it is because of the effect he had on the pop fans, when there are millions of underground hip hop artists and older(like artists from back in the 90's ect) who had that exact same standard of hard hitting music that if these people reviewed they would have said the same thing..

the difference ? eminem created pop songs for teenage girls to sing to and put posters up on there walls, the other guys ? they didnt sell out (eminem did to a sense) and didnt care about the mainstream of the music.

i think thats the difference, also im not syaing you are talking about pop music critics i know you arent, im just saying these critics only even looked at eminem because he was a white rapper that was in the middle of the media's eye.

yea, bar i agree with you and yea thanks for that, now i listen to like 20 diff artists and only of them is in shady which eminem

but when you say he didn't make an impact, i dont get that....

and i'm out of this anyways, i thought this was gonna be just a cool debate where everyone puts down their but you guys keep turning debates into name-calling arguments.

no one is name calling, only words i seen used was to be references its not name calling, and making a impact and changing music with a positive effect is different things, he had a commercial impact selling millions of records, but that doesnt earn you the titles, coz like asp said, britney spears also made a commercial impact selling millions of records. would you give birtney spears the titles you and others have given eminem ?

[mart85]

yeah Bar, you're right.... there are tons of other rappers that are at least as talented as Eminem that don't get recognized, and obviously those rappers aren't reviewed by those critics... but that's a different story, cause I guess everything in life is like that lol... some people get opportunities to be at the top, while other people just as good/talented etc... don't get that chance... and some of those who get that chance make it, and others just screw up... so I wasn't saying this to tell that Eminem is a better rapper than others

but I'm curious to see people's opinion... what does "making an impact in the music industry" means to you?

[4D]

Every single rapper, writes a few songs for the girls to shake their ass to, or to listen to, they all want to make money, it's just some of them don't have the means or ability to become that popular. Rakim, Pac, Biggie, Jay-Z, Nas, etc all wrote a song or two for the women, and all wanted to be millionaires at some stage. So why hate on Eminem because he acheived it?

And yes, Eminem became probably more successsful due to his skin colour, but after advancing through the adversity of an underground rap scene in Detroit with white skin, and coming out with respect and success on the other side, why shouldn't he profit from his tribulations.

And about musical impact, I think Eminem has given all you white wannabee rappers the hope that there is a place for white people in hip-hop. And don't gimme shit about Serch or Beastie Boys, I know they're well respected. But after Vanilla Ice, the gates slammed very loudly shut on future white rappers. Eminem kicked them doors down, and also proved that white rappers could be as good as the very best black rappers. Which was previously unthought of. That's an impact.

[AspirinE]

Every single rapper, writes a few songs for the girls to shake their ass to, or to listen to, they all want to make money, it's just some of them don't have the means or ability to become that popular. Rakim, Pac, Biggie, Jay-Z, Nas, etc all wrote a song or two for the women, and all wanted to be millionaires at some stage. So why hate on Eminem because he acheived it?

Biggie was the greatest party music rapper ever, jigga is just less tallented than Em. Rakim has made great club songs with great lyrics but just doesnt get the spotlight, because the kids are listning to shit like eminem and akon.

And yes, Eminem became probably more successsful due to his skin colour, but after advancing through the adversity of an underground rap scene in Detroit with white skin, and coming out with respect and success on the other side, why shouldn't he profit from his tribulations.

he profits enough as it is, no need to place him on a pedestal.

And about musical impact, I think Eminem has given all you white wannabee rappers the hope that there is a place for white people in hip-hop. And don't gimme shit about Serch or Beastie Boys, I know they're well respected.

Why shouldnt i give u that shit wen they clearly are the inspiration for eminem (the acclaimed first whiterapper)

But after Vanilla Ice, the gates slammed very loudly shut on future white rappers. Eminem kicked them doors down, and also proved that white rappers could be as good as the very best black rappers. Which was previously unthought of. That's an impact.

White hip hop existed before eminem, being good and race have nothing in common, no good rapper was ever stopped from making an album. No white rapper was lucky enough to get his demo heard by dre either. Its not impact its common sense, eminem didnt change anything by being white or signed for the matter.

[AspirinE]

yeah I agree Bar

but it's funny cause I feel like my first message started this whole discussion, while I think I was juste stating facts, maybe I wasn't clear enough, I'll just say it differently...

Up until maybe 2003, there were a lot of serious music critics (by serious critics I mean people with credibility, not those who reviews a Britney Spears's album in a teen magazine) that compared Eminem to other great people in music like John Lennon, Bob Dylan, Jimmy Hendrix, Kurt Cobain etc... and analyzed his albums like any other music album, and a lot of those critics considered some of Eminem's albums to be masterpieces... And what I was saying is that even if they're not "real hip hop fans", their opinions are still valuable to me, but from a music expert point of view... that's it... Maybe I didn't say it clearly enough in my first post, cause I didn't read the whole thing Tash posted, so I thought it was written by a serious critic... but that's what I meant basically

John lennon got people to march up against war and the governement saw him as a person that can change people with music.

Eminem tried that with Mosh, awww.... Bush still won lol.

Seriously though, i think one has to be an idiot to compare Eminem to Lennon.

[,-,'-{Bar}-',-,]

yeah Bar, you're right.... there are tons of other rappers that are at least as talented as Eminem that don't get recognized, and obviously those rappers aren't reviewed by those critics... but that's a different story, cause I guess everything in life is like that lol... some people get opportunities to be at the top, while other people just as good/talented etc... don't get that chance... and some of those who get that chance make it, and others just screw up... so I wasn't saying this to tell that Eminem is a better rapper than others

but I'm curious to see people's opinion... what does "making an impact in the music industry" means to you?

for me its like, someone who makes music and after 20 years a person who wasnt even born then can download that music and be influences, well thats one of the things, other is like rakim he basically invented multi's and now ever half decent rapper uses them to try show there skills, but there's all different things, tupac made a impact on the industry by his thug life contract thingy people like that, linking park make impact in the industry with there style of rock and hip hop (not syaing there the first but they made big impact with it) nas made a impact in the industry by his classic albums and concepts, (such as rewind track) micheal jackson made a impact in the music industry by turning a white pedo, so it can be all sorta of things lmao

nah for real, i aint sure thats some reasons id say soemone made a big positive impact into music (mostly hip hop in my examples) but i aint heard anywere near enough to give a good idea to the "proper" answer..if there is one


*i love the thing were it showef you if someone posted whil you were typing lmao*

Every single rapper, writes a few songs for the girls to shake their ass to, or to listen to, they all want to make money, it's just some of them don't have the means or ability to become that popular. Rakim, Pac, Biggie, Jay-Z, Nas, etc all wrote a song or two for the women, and all wanted to be millionaires at some stage. So why hate on Eminem because he acheived it?

a few songs ? eminem has done about 15 out of his last 3 albums, nas and rakim have probs did 15 all together over all there albums, i aint syaing its not right to make the cash, im just saying lol, and also ive posted in threads about the south thats i dislike what they do with music but i aint goni hate on a artist for making money to feed there kids, i hate on the arseholes who buy it and think its "the lyrical fire shit" lol so i know what ya mean

And about musical impact, I think Eminem has given all you white wannabee rappers the hope that there is a place for white people in hip-hop. And don't gimme shit about Serch or Beastie Boys, I know they're well respected. But after Vanilla Ice, the gates slammed very loudly shut on future white rappers. Eminem kicked them doors down, and also proved that white rappers could be as good as the very best black rappers. Which was previously unthought of. That's an impact.

actually he made it harder tell me what good white rapper has made it in the industry ? tell me 1 underground white rapper that hasnt once been classed as a "eminem wannebe", i have been classed as it, in the UK as soon as they see you are white if you even like eminem's music they immediantly like "who are you the next eminem?" i dis-agree that he kicked the doors open for other white rappers, if anything the only place right now who is actually showing a vairiety in white rappers is the UK, they are all showing different styles and showing that whites can rap and it doesnt need to be about murdering your wife nor do you they need to make cheesy singles

[Tash8]

In my opinion, and it's my opinion, i'm not saying it is you guys, but you don't have to invent something new to make an impact, you can take something and improve it... eminem took complex lyrics and made them a lot more complex, ya rakim's lyrics are the shit but eminem's are harder or atleast they were... that might not be as big as impact as the starting of multis but it's certainly and impact.

[AspirinE]

In my opinion, and it's my opinion, i'm not saying it is you guys, but you don't have to invent something new to make an impact, you can take something and improve it... eminem took complex lyrics and made them a lot more complex, ya rakim's lyrics are the shit but eminem's are harder or atleast they were... that might not be as big as impact as the starting of multis but it's certainly and impact.

Eminems lyrics are harder than rakims? ... please.

blesphamy to compare them.

[4D]

actually he made it harder tell me what good white rapper has made it in the industry ? tell me 1 underground white rapper that hasnt once been classed as a "eminem wannebe", i have been classed as it, in the UK as soon as they see you are white if you even like eminem's music they immediantly like "who are you the next eminem?" i dis-agree that he kicked the doors open for other white rappers, if anything the only place right now who is actually showing a vairiety in white rappers is the UK, they are all showing different styles and showing that whites can rap and it doesnt need to be about murdering your wife nor do you they need to make cheesy singles

Don't diss Eminem for writing a masterpiece like Kim, that wasn't a stunt that was one of the dopest concept for a song since, erm Rewind. And delivered with more emotion than i've heard since pac rapped.

Lmfao at Asp tryin to burn Eminem for releasing cheesy singles and using John Lennon to knock him, he practically started that shit. See, now I had to go diss a legend just to get back to ya. You're making me as bad as yourselves. John Lennon was a great songwriter, wrote some of my favourite songs, like Imagine and Working Class Hero, the latter which you Asp probably never heard. But, his genius like Pacs and Biggie's was magnified by him getting assassinated. Nothing makes someone a legend quite as quickly as getting shot.

It's like Art, the price of the paintings gain a lot more value after the artist is gone. Mark my words, when eminem does retire, get killed or just die. He will be looked back on as a legend. By everyone, not just me and the groupie, everyone in the hip-hop community. Because he blew new life into it when it was on it's dying legs.

*Asp replied to Tash while posting, lol*


Yes, some of Eminems are more complex than Rakims. Lose Yourself, Till I Collapse, and Bully, are better than anything Rakim has done, *IMO*.

Especially Bully, the most slept on track ever. The multies and song structure in that track is amazing, and the way he flips it to the beat is flawless.

[,-,'-{Bar}-',-,]

In my opinion, and it's my opinion, i'm not saying it is you guys, but you don't have to invent something new to make an impact, you can take something and improve it... eminem took complex lyrics and made them a lot more complex, ya rakim's lyrics are the shit but eminem's are harder or atleast they were... that might not be as big as impact as the starting of multis but it's certainly and impact.

Eminems lyrics are harder than rakims? ... please.

blesphamy to compare them.

yeh i agree with asp, i mean come on tash, have you listened to rakim ? he was doin what eminem did on eminem show back when eminem was sucking his momma's tit lmao ok jokes aside.

eminem created complex lyrics with simple words so poeple who werent exactly all that smart or didnt listen to hip hop, could connect and understand them while a hardcore hip hop fan could relate and be like thats sick, while eminem was underground he had better lyrics just check the infinite album, once eminem made it mainstream he immediantly toned down his lyrics on alot of tracks.

Don't diss Eminem for writing a masterpiece like Kim, that wasn't a stunt that was one of the dopest concept for a song since, erm Rewind. And delivered with more emotion than i've heard since pac rapped.

i didnt diss, im saying that style got him alot of contraversie, and now if a white rapper says stuff like "ill through you in a lake" or "ill slit your throat and slam you in a trunk" or anything along that nature, they are imediantly classed as a eminem wannebe, when maybe that artist just has a crazy style aswell, but white rappers cant take that style..they just cant, coz as soon as they step near it they are eminem wannebe's, hence he actually shortened the roads white rappers can take, if he did anything for them at all

oh and btw, im not saying there isnt any eminem wanne-be's out there, coz there is thousands of them, im just saying if your white and rapping eminem comes along as a career wrecker you need to stay clear of, coz once you name affliates with his style your completely fucked