Eminem Needs To Play To His Strengths - Not Punchlines!

[DanWS]

Why would I be kidding you? I said it's not meant to be good technically, how can you dispute that? You really think the only reason he aint using multies in Difficult is because he is on drugs? And that otherwise the song would've been full of them? That's almost nonsensical. The song would've sounded ridiculous with multies in there. He is pouring is heart out, can't even bring himself to say the word "casket" but he's supposed to use multies in there? LOL no. I'm not saying the rhyming was amazing, I'm saying there wasn't meant to be any multies or complex metaphors in Difficult because it would have sounded stupid. For anyone to tell me different I just can't bring myself to believe.

...I really hope people on here are trolling, seriously. If not, people on this site are stupid as fuck, that's not opinion, it's fact. Why would an emotional song with multies sound worse than one without multis Just because it's emotional doesn't mean it can't have good rhyming. If that's the case then every emotional song Em did before he got addicted would've been so much better without the multis, right?

The random, stupid songs Em was doing at the time had next to no multis in them because he could barely write, you really think this one is any different?

Why do you seem to be trying to get away from Difficult itself and broaden this out to other "emotional songs" he has done? Difficult is unique to any other Eminem song I've heard, it's definitely the most depressing Em song and in my mind there is no way it would've sounded better with multies in. It woulda sounded stupid. Do you really think Difficult would have sounded better with multies in? Yes or no? Because if so then we will never agree on this.

[HereHere]

Why do you seem to be trying to get away from Difficult itself and broaden this out to other "emotional songs" he has done? Difficult is unique to any other Eminem song I've heard, it's definitely the most depressing Em song and in my mind there is no way it would've sounded better with multies in. It woulda sounded stupid. Do you really think Difficult would have sounded better with multies in? Yes or no? Because if so then we will never agree on this.

Because I was comparing Difficult to other emotional Eminem songs? And the fact that Em has always been able to rap about anything whilst still being technically brilliant. Difficult would've been a hundred times better with multis, you're acting like multis would somehow take away the emotional impact. They're not corny punchlines, they're not some weird metaphor, it's something that should come naturally to any rapper that wants to be taken seriously. Anyone can rhyme one syllable together with another. I don't care how emotional the song is, I get that it's depressing.

The whole point in this discussion was that lyrically Difficult is bad, in terms of rhyming. Then people saying it wasn't started backpedalling and saying that it has bad rhyming on purpose to be better. Like I've said again and again, I like Difficult, however it is really weak lyrically like every song around then.

Edit: Fixed some typo.

[justbb09]

i read the first page of this thread and had to leave my computer and didnt get back until now and its at 6 so i dont feel like reading everything.

first off, i couldnt agree more with this topic. His punchlines are not that good, plain and simple. What i wish Em would do,is go back to making battle rap tracks. That i feel is when Em is at his best. A lot of these diss/battle tracks are not really directed at anyone, just rhymes that funny and could be put in a diss track if he wanted. i hope im making myself clear while trying to describe this. im in a rush cant fully explain what i mean

[DanWS]

Why do you seem to be trying to get away from Difficult itself and broaden this out to other "emotional songs" he has done? Difficult is unique to any other Eminem song I've heard, it's definitely the most depressing Em song and in my mind there is no way it would've sounded better with multies in. It woulda sounded stupid. Do you really think Difficult would have sounded better with multies in? Yes or no? Because if so then we will never agree on this.

Because I was comparing Difficult to other emotional Eminem songs? And the fact that Em has always been able to rap about anything whilst still being technically brilliant. Difficult would've been a hundred times better with multis, you're acting like multis would somehow take away the emotional impact. They're not corny punchlines, they're not some weird metaphor, it's something that should come naturally to any rapper that wants to be taken seriously. Anyone can rhyme one syllable together with another. I don't care how emotional the song is, I get that it's depressing.

The whole point in this discussion was that lyrically Difficult is bad, in terms of rhyming. Then people saying it wasn't started backpedalling and saying that it has bad rhyming on purpose to be better. Like I've said again and again, I like Difficult, however it is really week lyrically like every song around then.

I don't think Difficult is really comparible to many other emotional Eminem songs because it's unique. For me the only song that comes close to sounding anything like Difficult is Beautiful and I don't see him using complex rhymes and multies in there. I think multies would have possibly taken away some of the emotional impact in Difficult. The whole tone of the song is downbeat and extremely sad, his flow is slow and I don't think Eminem needs to insert multies in Difficult to be taken seriously - I mean don't you think the theme is serious enough? The song clearly isn't about proving his technical abilities so why should he be striving to be "taken seriously" as a rapper? I seriously find it difficult (no pun intended) to comprehend how anyone thinks this song could benefit from multies, lol. I don't think that lyrically the song is weak. Like i've said I think the the lrycis are good because they do a fantastic job of telling a story and evoking emotion, the song not missing any technical attributes for me. Anyyway I need to go to fucking bed, so adios.

[HereHere]

I don't think Difficult is really comparible to many other emotional Eminem songs because it's unique. For me the only song that comes close to sounding anything like Difficult is Beautiful and I don't see him using complex rhymes and multies in there. I think multies would have possibly taken away some of the emotional impact in Difficult. The whole tone of the song is downbeat and extremely sad, his flow is slow and I don't think Eminem needs to insert multies in Difficult to be taken seriously - I mean don't you think the theme is serious enough? The song clearly isn't about proving his technical abilities so why should he be striving to be "taken seriously" as a rapper? I seriously find it difficult (no pun intended) to comprehend how anyone thinks this song could benefit from multies, lol. I don't think that lyrically the song is weak. Like i've said I think the the lrycis are good because they do a fantastic job of telling a story and evoking emotion, the song not missing any technical attributes for me. Anyyway I need to go to fucking bed, so adios.

Right, so now I'm repeating myself for about the hundredth time.

Beautiful is a corny, average at best song, and sounds similar to Difficult because they were both written around the time he was fucked up on drugs. I never said the theme isn't serious enough, I said that a rapper who barely uses multis is a shit rapper imo. Doesn't matter how good the content is, technically it's still shit. I may enjoy the song for what it is, but technically it's still shit.

You're confusing good rhyming with forced rhyming. Just because the rhyming is better doesn't mean the song has to sound differently emotionally. I'm not arguing this point anymore, I just find it funny that a lot of people who praise Relapse for the rhyming, and criticise Recovery for not being lyrically as great are praising Difficult. But whatever, this is like the argument that 'oh Eminemz wasn't being serious so he can rap shit like in wee wee, cause he was juss playuhnz around!'.

This thread has went wayyyy off-topic, so I'm out. At the end of the day, Em needs to drop the shitty punchlines.

[VenomBlackViper]

I don't think Difficult is really comparible to many other emotional Eminem songs because it's unique. For me the only song that comes close to sounding anything like Difficult is Beautiful and I don't see him using complex rhymes and multies in there. I think multies would have possibly taken away some of the emotional impact in Difficult. The whole tone of the song is downbeat and extremely sad, his flow is slow and I don't think Eminem needs to insert multies in Difficult to be taken seriously - I mean don't you think the theme is serious enough? The song clearly isn't about proving his technical abilities so why should he be striving to be "taken seriously" as a rapper? I seriously find it difficult (no pun intended) to comprehend how anyone thinks this song could benefit from multies, lol. I don't think that lyrically the song is weak. Like i've said I think the the lrycis are good because they do a fantastic job of telling a story and evoking emotion, the song not missing any technical attributes for me. Anyyway I need to go to fucking bed, so adios.

Right, so now I'm repeating myself for about the hundredth time.

Beautiful is a corny, average at best song, and sounds similar to Difficult because they were both written around the time he was fucked up on drugs. I never said the theme isn't serious enough, I said that a rapper who barely uses multis is a shit rapper imo. Doesn't matter how good the content is, technically it's still shit. I may enjoy the song for what it is, but technically it's still shit.

You're confusing good rhyming with forced rhyming. Just because the rhyming is better doesn't mean the song has to sound differently emotionally. I'm not arguing this point anymore, I just find it funny that a lot of people who praise Relapse for the rhyming, and criticise Recovery for not being lyrically as great are praising Difficult. But whatever, this is like the argument that 'oh Eminemz wasn't being serious so he can rap shit like in wee wee, cause he was juss playuhnz around!'.

This thread has went wayyyy off-topic, so I'm out. At the end of the day, Em needs to drop the shitty punchlines.

Completely agree with HereHere
Difficult is good for what it is, but lyrically it's horrible.

[EminemBase]

Difficult is terrible rhyme-wise. I mean, yeah, if you look at it from a different angle, lyrically, it is good as in, it's a tribute to his deceased friend. But, besides the content the song is bad lyrically.

It's not actually that bad rhyme-wise at all, people always exaggerate how bad shit from that period is because they know he was on drugs lmao. Where as when you actually look at the Re-Up verses objectively, most are pretty decent.

And "Difficult" is not just good because it's about Proof. And lyricism is about more than just rhyming, and sometimes you sacrifice that for other things and it can be totally right to do that. Just because he's not rhyming like nuts doesn't mean it's lyrically bad.

It's a very poignant song, the way he chooses to tell little personal stories as apposed to just fully laying bare his own issues with it or recounting things redundantly. He has a very genuine and poetic mind, and way of writing and the ideas he chooses to go with are very interesting.

Like when he says "your presence... oh I went and dropped some presents off..." - Now, I'm not saying that wordplay alone is so brilliant, but it's the execution of the transition. The way he makes it sound so casual as if he's genuinely relaying his memories and stumbling on a new thought etc.

He's very conversational, and natural. Most writers could not make it sound so genuine, and authentic. Even if they really meant it. They do so many bad habits, writing-wise that make it corny or unreal. He's just got it, naturally. And I'm not even saying he's necessarily THAT calculating, he's just naturally very literary-inclined obviously.

But, "Difficult" is a very good song lyrically.

[EminemInsider]

To the "message > multis" people...if Eminem's not going to rhyme at all, why even bother to write lyrics? Why not just write prose?

[kindafeelslikedejavu]

hes not the bad guy who makes fun of people that die in plane crashes and laughs as long as it aint happen to him.. anymore

[tank2010]

Eminem is not a punchline rapper. Simple as that.

I have nothing wrong with Eminem attempting to do punchlines since his comeback. But surely by now he realises how it's ruining most of his verses?! Surely someone by now has told him how he isn't very good at them and they're not clever at all.

Let's take his latest verse, as an example.

Fuck, it’s fuckin’ rainin’! Shit, there’s lightning!
Bitch, it’s thunderin’, ’cause I’m cussin’ up a storm

Pretty much the same shit as Recovery Em. Take a phrase ('cussin a storm') and make that phrase literal - cussin = use swear words. 'storm' = describe a storm. Royce uses the similarly shitty technique in his verse on one line.

It's the simpliest method - anyone on here could do it.

Now the bit that everyone is blowing their load to:

You 2000 and late, man, and Will I ain’t, I’m the bad guy
Type of guy that’ll drag five girls up on stage
Pour ice in their pants, and the first one who pees gets a black eye

I get the wordplay. Black Eyed Peas. Fergie peed herself once. Will I Aint, 2000 & Late. I get it all.

But the thing about wordplay is it has to mean something outside of the actaul wordplay itself. And this doesnt.

Pour ice in their pants? Drag five girls on stage? Give them a black eye because they pee themselves?

Maybe I'm missing something but to me, it's complete gibberish and nonsical. He's conceding making sense for wordplay. He's conceding having logical lines for wordplay. In the same way you can have forced multies, here you have forced wordplay/punchlines.

Eminem's main strength is rhyming. Why isn't he playing on this strength? Why is he jumping on a bandwagon of punchline rhyming? He could have used Relapse as springboard to move the rhyming (and flows) he displayed on there in better content and concepts (he'd started this with Deja Vu).

The main problem is he'll be working with Slaughterhouse & Yelawolf (punchline emccees) and I can only imagine this to encourage him even more to use them.

Agreed. That is why The Eminem Show is his best album; White America, Cleanin' out my Closet, Soldier, Say Goodbye to Hollywood, etc. .. Content >> Punchlines/Battle-oriented raps... Well, for Em anyways

[DanWS]

Which sounds better?

This:

It was like a hundred degrees, I was catching a sunburn
Trying to walk under the trees, just to get me some comfort

Or this:

It was like ninety degrees, I was catching a sunburn
Trying to walk under the trees, just to get me some comfort

Looks like the first option. Maybe Difficult would have been better with more multis.

Recommended Further Reading On This Subject

I actually think the 2nd option sounds better. Fitting the extra sylable in the first option compromises the flow.

[DanWS]

I don't think Difficult is really comparible to many other emotional Eminem songs because it's unique. For me the only song that comes close to sounding anything like Difficult is Beautiful and I don't see him using complex rhymes and multies in there. I think multies would have possibly taken away some of the emotional impact in Difficult. The whole tone of the song is downbeat and extremely sad, his flow is slow and I don't think Eminem needs to insert multies in Difficult to be taken seriously - I mean don't you think the theme is serious enough? The song clearly isn't about proving his technical abilities so why should he be striving to be "taken seriously" as a rapper? I seriously find it difficult (no pun intended) to comprehend how anyone thinks this song could benefit from multies, lol. I don't think that lyrically the song is weak. Like i've said I think the the lrycis are good because they do a fantastic job of telling a story and evoking emotion, the song not missing any technical attributes for me. Anyyway I need to go to fucking bed, so adios.

Right, so now I'm repeating myself for about the hundredth time.

Beautiful is a corny, average at best song, and sounds similar to Difficult because they were both written around the time he was fucked up on drugs. I never said the theme isn't serious enough, I said that a rapper who barely uses multis is a shit rapper imo. Doesn't matter how good the content is, technically it's still shit. I may enjoy the song for what it is, but technically it's still shit.

You're confusing good rhyming with forced rhyming. Just because the rhyming is better doesn't mean the song has to sound differently emotionally. I'm not arguing this point anymore, I just find it funny that a lot of people who praise Relapse for the rhyming, and criticise Recovery for not being lyrically as great are praising Difficult. But whatever, this is like the argument that 'oh Eminemz wasn't being serious so he can rap shit like in wee wee, cause he was juss playuhnz around!'.

This thread has went wayyyy off-topic, so I'm out. At the end of the day, Em needs to drop the shitty punchlines.

Ummm you've not talked about Beautiful once during this debate with me, how are you repeating yourself? Classic "uh I'm not getting anywhere with what I'm saying, let's try and make it look like everyone else isn't taking in my points" line. And lulz, I said in my very first post that technically Difficult isn't good, but lyrically it is great because the lyrics permeate with me and make me feel sad as fuck. Please don't tell me I'm confused, are you really gonna tell me I'm associating good rhyming with forced rhyming? You've not no leverage to make these ridiculous statements. I'm definitely not one of those people who criticise Recovery for not being lyrically great, so you're talking about other people here. Eminem can be lyrically great while using multies, metaphors, playing around with pronunciations of words etc, I know that, I'm saying that the whole flow and tone of Difficult means that to my ears, the focus of the song wasn't to include multies and metaphors and be technically great - but lyrically it was still great anyway.

And "Difficult" is not just good because it's about Proof. And lyricism is about more than just rhyming, and sometimes you sacrifice that for other things and it can be totally right to do that. Just because he's not rhyming like nuts doesn't mean it's lyrically bad.

He's very conversational, and natural. Most writers could not make it sound so genuine, and authentic. Even if they really meant it. They do so many bad habits, writing-wise that make it corny or unreal. He's just got it, naturally. And I'm not even saying he's necessarily THAT calculating, he's just naturally very literary-inclined obviously.

But, "Difficult" is a very good song lyrically.

This is exactly what I've been trying to say.

[HereHere]

I don't think Difficult is really comparible to many other emotional Eminem songs because it's unique. For me the only song that comes close to sounding anything like Difficult is Beautiful and I don't see him using complex rhymes and multies in there. I think multies would have possibly taken away some of the emotional impact in Difficult. The whole tone of the song is downbeat and extremely sad, his flow is slow and I don't think Eminem needs to insert multies in Difficult to be taken seriously - I mean don't you think the theme is serious enough? The song clearly isn't about proving his technical abilities so why should he be striving to be "taken seriously" as a rapper? I seriously find it difficult (no pun intended) to comprehend how anyone thinks this song could benefit from multies, lol. I don't think that lyrically the song is weak. Like i've said I think the the lrycis are good because they do a fantastic job of telling a story and evoking emotion, the song not missing any technical attributes for me. Anyyway I need to go to fucking bed, so adios.

Right, so now I'm repeating myself for about the hundredth time.

Beautiful is a corny, average at best song, and sounds similar to Difficult because they were both written around the time he was fucked up on drugs. I never said the theme isn't serious enough, I said that a rapper who barely uses multis is a shit rapper imo. Doesn't matter how good the content is, technically it's still shit. I may enjoy the song for what it is, but technically it's still shit.

You're confusing good rhyming with forced rhyming. Just because the rhyming is better doesn't mean the song has to sound differently emotionally. I'm not arguing this point anymore, I just find it funny that a lot of people who praise Relapse for the rhyming, and criticise Recovery for not being lyrically as great are praising Difficult. But whatever, this is like the argument that 'oh Eminemz wasn't being serious so he can rap shit like in wee wee, cause he was juss playuhnz around!'.

This thread has went wayyyy off-topic, so I'm out. At the end of the day, Em needs to drop the shitty punchlines.

Ummm you've not talked about Beautiful once during this debate with me, how are you repeating yourself? Classic "uh I'm not getting anywhere with what I'm saying, let's try and make it look like everyone else isn't taking in my points" line. And lulz, I said in my very first post that technically Difficult isn't good, but lyrically it is great because the lyrics permeate with me and make me feel sad as fuck. Please don't tell me I'm confused, are you really gonna tell me I'm associating good rhyming with forced rhyming? You've not no leverage to make these ridiculous statements. I'm definitely not one of those people who criticise Recovery for not being lyrically great, so you're talking about other people here. Eminem can be lyrically great while using multies, metaphors, playing around with pronunciations of words etc, I know that, I'm saying that the whole flow and tone of Difficult means that to my ears, the focus of the song wasn't to include multies and metaphors and be technically great - but lyrically it was still great anyway.

Talking to you is like talking to a mentally retarded kid, seriously. I didn't mean about Beautiful, but every time you bring up a point, it's one I've already made a counter argument for a billion times in this thread. If you're too retarded to realise that Difficult would have been better with multis, then that's your own problem, but I'm not gonna keep repeating myself.

[VenomBlackViper]

Lol how did Difficults lyricism become a huge arguement? It's a good story telling/emotional track but his lyricism is horrible, like it shouldn't even be a discussion. People who are saying his lyrics were good are most likely referring to storytelling wise not technically. Either way this isn't worthy of even being a discussion. Holy shit next we're gonna be arguing about the true meaning behind Weewee.

[DanWS]

Ummm you've not talked about Beautiful once during this debate with me, how are you repeating yourself? Classic "uh I'm not getting anywhere with what I'm saying, let's try and make it look like everyone else isn't taking in my points" line. And lulz, I said in my very first post that technically Difficult isn't good, but lyrically it is great because the lyrics permeate with me and make me feel sad as fuck. Please don't tell me I'm confused, are you really gonna tell me I'm associating good rhyming with forced rhyming? You've not no leverage to make these ridiculous statements. I'm definitely not one of those people who criticise Recovery for not being lyrically great, so you're talking about other people here. Eminem can be lyrically great while using multies, metaphors, playing around with pronunciations of words etc, I know that, I'm saying that the whole flow and tone of Difficult means that to my ears, the focus of the song wasn't to include multies and metaphors and be technically great - but lyrically it was still great anyway.

Talking to you is like talking to a mentally retarded kid, seriously. I didn't mean about Beautiful, but every time you bring up a point, it's one I've already made a counter argument for a billion times in this thread. If you're too retarded to realise that Difficult would have been better with multis, then that's your own problem, but I'm not gonna keep repeating myself.

OK, another "oh no I'm getting nowhere with what I'm saying, let's throw out an insult and see if that get's me anywhere" line. It's moronic to say talking to me is like a mentally retarded kid. You're clearly unable to come back with a retort of any substance so instead you take it upon yourself to get in a hissy fit and start hurling insults. Yet I'm the retarded one, OK. Everyone who thinks Difficult is fine the way it is, without multies, is a retard. No matter what valid points they raise, they're just a retard. I actually thought you were a decent poster before but making ridiculous comments like that just makes me believe you're just another TRshady poster incapable of having a decent debate.