The Future of Eminem (Official Discussion Thread)

[VINTAGƎ]

@ swa -- I guess I shouldn't really take official critical reviews into account -- I guess what I mean is, public reception? Us. The fans. Or fans of hip hop in general.

From what I've seen here, and on numerous other hip hop forums where Eminem is either loved or hated, along with real life conversations with both casual and die hard fans -- it seems the consensus is his first three were his best, and everything else that followed has been mixed.

Now, individually there's gonna be deviations, for example, I think Recovery is his third best album. For me it's TES, then MMLP, then Recovery, and then SSLP, but I understand I may be a minority in that and so I'm only going by what it seems people think as a whole. And that is, nothing he's put out after his first three have touched those first three.

Now I'm as stanny as one can get. I've been following him since I was 11 (I'm 26 now), own all his albums, any side projects he's ever done, bought everything first day, memorized all the lyrics, blindly defended him on other forums of which I used to casually post -- but looking at his recent work -- am I getting the same fuzzy feeling listening to Monster as I did with Remember Me? Am I getting that same flawless feeling listening to So Much Better as I did with Superman? No.

Again, I love this album, I love the fact that he is still around making music as Eminem has been a part of my life for more years than he hasn't. But I don't get that same flawless, wouldn't change a thing feeling with MMLP 2 as I did with MMLP and TES and to a lesser extent, Recovery. I would change several things about MMLP 2. Now you can say it's nostalgia, it's me growing up and just not blindly accepting every song he makes like I did when I was a teen and had no musical opinion of my own. But the fact remains, if all I can look forward to now are albums that have both high spots and low spots, I don't want to have to wait a significant amount of time for them.

I'd rather get them every other year or something. Not every three years.

[Hopsinshadie]

Eminem is going to be around. for a while at least. He's one of those people that you're always gonna say is getting too old. Anyone watch the NBA? For years people said the Spurs are too old to compete and they are there ever year. Same with Em. For the next 5 years people will say he's getting too old, yet he's still gonna sell well and do good enough.

[Amadeo]

I've never taken anything Eminem's said about quitting rap seriously ever since I heard,

'Fuck rap, I'm givin' it up y'all, I'm sorry
(But Eminem this is your record release party)'

on SSLP. I think he says it on basically every album as an optional 'get out of jail free card' if his latest project plummets and doesn't sell. At least, I'm willing to bet that was his reasoning behind those lines when he first came out; being new to the genre, being white, lacking the confidence he has now, unable to predict if what he has to say will make an impact or be interesting etc.

WTF? That line on SSLP was a joke.

And Eminem will continue rapping as long as he loves it, as he's said many times. It has nothing to do with selling. Eminem doesn't give a shit about selling.

[kkaniff]

^ This.
Em has never been universally critically acclaimed. MMLP has almost exactly the same number of mixed and negative reviews as MMLP2, and it's his most critically acclaimed album with a Metacritic score of 78, and this, IIRC, is after it was re-rated some time later by reviewers.

[ganjakush56]

On a side note, why do you guys think Hip-hop as a genre is not respected like the blues, jazz, rock, or other mainstream (widely listened to and accessible) genres?

[cityfan31]

Hip Hop isn't considered as musically complex as most other genres. Which it isn't. 99% of beats are musically quite boring but that's because the voice is the focal point of each song and the beats are just the backdrop. Most rappers aren't musicians.

[yoda you can call me]

Hip Hop isn't considered as musically complex as most other genres. Which it isn't. 99% of beats are musically quite boring but that's because the voice is the focal point of each song and the beats are just the backdrop. Most rappers aren't musicians.

And 99% of the genre is generic Bitches and Money shit

[VINTAGƎ]

@swa -- Very good points. I do think the internet plays a huge role in perception nowadays. I remember making a post saying if TES dropped after MMLP at a time where forums where this popular, what would the reception be? I know I was let down on first listen. Or, not let down, but confused. Where is the rape? The chainsaws? The hatred? The fuck is this soft shit? Hailie's Song? The fuck? Now it's my favorite album. Go figure.

Yeezus is another perfect example. In real life there are two answers I hear and two answers only: "That shit was garbage." Or "I haven't heard it/wasn't interested in hearing it."

On the internet, at least in terms of critics -- this shit was some next level Illmatic meets Thriller meets Led Zeppelin IV shit. In real life, people say it's his Encore, and Bound 2 gets clowned hard.

So I get the internet not exactly being representative of the audience's true reaction -- but you still have to account for personal tastes.

For me, personally, there's just something about his last 3 albums that lack "it" for me. And like I mentioned, maybe it has more to do with me feeling nostalgic than it does his quality of music. Again, being a teen and listening to your favorite artist, he's gonna be like your Justin Bieber. You're already down before you hear the song. You grow up, form your own musical opinions, don't blindly accept things like you used to -- now you hear this artist with a more objective ear.

So for me, as much as I loved Recovery, and MMLP 2 (I was meh on Relapse) -- they never made me feel what his first three made me feel. So my thing is, if I'm never gonna get that feeling again (quality), then I at least want to hear more stuff more often (quantity).

And again, I loved this album, but if every album now I'm gonna be faced with songs I have to skip -- something I started doing since Encore -- albums that I can't play from start to finish and love every song the same -- then I don't want to have to wait 3+ years to get that kind of album. Because the wait won't equate to the quality. The wait won't be worth it.

Time will tell. I had some hangups with a few songs on this album but they are growing on me. Who knows what I'll think about this album 5-10 years from now. Let it grow, as we did his first 3. Let time pass, like it has for those 3, and see where this ranks up.

[ganjakush56]

Hip Hop isn't considered as musically complex as most other genres. Which it isn't. 99% of beats are musically quite boring but that's because the voice is the focal point of each song and the beats are just the backdrop. Most rappers aren't musicians.

And 99% of the genre is generic Bitches and Money shit

you must not listen to a lot of hip-hop then if that is your honest perception of the genre - goes for you to cityfan, 99 % of the beats in hip-hop ARE NOT musically boring and to say "most rapper aren't musicians" is a gross overstatement based on flawed knowledge. I guess this answers my question - hip-hop is not universally respected as a genre because the majority must not know much about it.

[yoda you can call me]

Hip Hop isn't considered as musically complex as most other genres. Which it isn't. 99% of beats are musically quite boring but that's because the voice is the focal point of each song and the beats are just the backdrop. Most rappers aren't musicians.

And 99% of the genre is generic Bitches and Money shit

you must not listen to a lot of hip-hop then if that is your honest perception of the genre - goes for you to cityfan, 99 % of the beats in hip-hop ARE NOT musically boring and to say "most rapper aren't musicians" is a gross overstatement based on flawed knowledge. I guess this answers my question - hip-hop is not universally respected as a genre because the majority must not know much about it.

I listen to tons of non generic hiphop, however, the perception from outsiders is just that, they're not willing to dig deep to find the gems

[yoda you can call me]

I listen to tons of non generic hiphop, however, the perception from outsiders is just that, they're not willing to dig deep to find the gems

This is true. The actual genre isn't that shallow, but since most of what the public hears is the mainstream, they assume most of hip hop is like that.

yep. and one of the reasons that em as huge as he is. there's not an ounce of anything generic about him

[VINTAGƎ]

Hip hop is extremely generic as a genre overall. Certainly when it comes to the mainstream. Nobody wants to experiment. Eminem and Kanye do. Even though Kanye's recent experiments have been snoozers for me, I give him credit for being different. But most other mainstream rappers have the same subject matter and beats every album. There is no growth. How has Rick Ross grown as an artist? He hasn't. And the game is filled with tons of people like that scared to take risks for fear of being clowned on.

The academy, come nominations time, are not looking at underground artists. They're listening to commercial shit -- songs like "My Nigga" and other garbage like that. When rap gets better commercially, they'll be taken more seriously as a genre. But the fans have spoken. They want that club shit. The materialistic shit. That's what they want to listen to.

[ganjakush56]

um..hip hop is not generic as a genre

[Whitefox]

um..hip hop is not generic as a genre

It is.

[Hopsinshadie]

I feel Eminem is more accepted now than ever. But at the same time nobody is shocked anymore, not too many people are pissed off.