Eminem's production is currently overrated

[_Hawk_]

I know a lot of people on this forum praise Eminem as a producer; I believe the vast majority of you would prefer him to mostly produce his next solo effort, however within the confines of this forum I honestly believe that Eminem is overrated as a producer.

His recent effort on Symphony in H is definitely better than a lot of the production was on Recovery, however it is by no means special. The beat itself is easily forgettable. When I played the track to a few friends they couldn't even remember the beat, nor did they notice it. Whilst this may owe more to post-Yeezus listening than Eminem's production skills, I honestly don't believe that Eminem has given any indication recently that his production skills are up to 2013 standard. Whether any of you praise the production on Yeezus, you cannot doubt the complexity and paradoxical minimalism of the production. It is stellar; cinematic almost, and whilst I preferred Kanye's production on MBDTF, I honestly think it knocks anything Em has produced recently out of the water.

I am not doubting that Em has made some awesome beats, but they are very simple in their highest form. One of the things I love about Yeezus (and GK: MC too) is the way the production evolves throughout a song, It isn't just a looped beat with a thumping chorus line; there are so many layers that allow the track to evolve into the next one.

The main reason I am using Yeezus as a comparison is that it will most likely be Eminem's strongest contender for album of the year and rap album of the year when his next album is released (if it is released any time soon that is).
I think it would be shocking if Eminem doesn't walk away with a win in either of these categories, and it would definitely highlight that his is stuck in an outdated rhythm of rap music. Eminem needs his production skills to evolve musically, away from the confines of the rap genre he places himself in.

Whilst some may argue that I am being overly negative of Em's producer skills, I seriously don't think they are anything special at this moment in time. His next album will really have to deliver production wise. We all know that lyrically it will be awesome.

[Evil Twin]

Simple beats always make for better songs. Especially with Eminem.

[slimsoxshady]

Yea I'd rather Eminem rap over other people's beats any day
Pretty sure that some of my favorite beats of his aren't really "produced" by him but just "overseen" or "organized" by him like No Apologies, Lose Yourself

[Jason M.]

kick kick snare

[Whitefox]

Kanye is nothing without his production. As for Eminem, take Who Knew beat, at least. Eminem didnt produce it though, but this beat is simple as fuck, nevertheless this song is godlike and there is a long list of songs such Who Knew. Take away production from Kanye and who is he? Fucking nobody.

[Evil Twin]

Kanye is nothing without his production. As for Eminem, take Who Knew beat, at least. Eminem didnt produce it though, but this beat is simple as fuck, nevertheless this song is godlike and there is a long list of songs such Who Knew. Take away production from Kanye and who is he? Fucking nobody.

Yeah I think it was either the Kill You beat or the Who Knew beat, Em said that Dre was going through beats and thought it was trash but Em suggested he keep it and Em ended up making a great song out of it. Just shows how different his mind state is and how he hears things the way we don't.

[Whitefox]

Rap is words. Not some fucking electronic mess.

[_Hawk_]

Who wants a memorable beat in a rap song? You want memorable lyrics.

"Banging beatz" are for simple people. Beats should only be there to bring life to lyrics.

This is what is flawed with all of your opinions.

Rap is not just about the lyrics. It is about the music. I won't argue that Yeezus is anything special, but it reaches new grounds musically. It is innovative.

I am not asking Em to rap over some acid-punk-house-elctro-rock-beat, but I will find his next album tiresome if every track is an incohesive display of looped beats. Don't get me wrong, I love his production work on The Way I Am, Lose Yourself, Without Me etc, however this topic is clearly focusing on Eminem's recent production credits. We have not seen anything recently to allow us to appreciate Em's production skills.


At the end of the day, it is widely known that Eminem is the best rapper alive today (perhaps Kendrick will offer good competition for that title). But the best Rap Artist? He has not shown any artistic innovation in recent years. Besides the accent, Relapse was flawed by the straight-jacketed simplicity of each track in an all-too familiar album. If it was as cohesive and moving as GK: MC, I think the accent would be widely overlooked in place of the album's artistic overtones.

It is very ease to argue that 'good beats are for simple people', but then again what topics is Eminem rapping about? Killing hoes and banging sluts? Attacking consumerism and societal issues is arguably for the more intellectually minded, even if the face-value-lyricism is simplistic.

But these points are of-route, as the discussion at hand is Eminem's production skills, and no one here has offered tangible reasons to show that they have been good recently. I liked his beat on Obie's album, but even then the drums in it were dodgy (too quick in places). It is quite obvious that Em has been stuck in an out-dated phase of rap. When Kanye outsold 50 it clearly highlighted that soul-rap had overtaken the gangsta variety. This is true with production as well. There is no denying that Eminem was a good producer, but that was years ago.

The overriding point which you all seem to have missed is that production aids lyricism. The beat on Gorgeous or Runaway does not affect the lyrics in any way, shape or form (sorry to keep using Kanye comparisons). Perhaps Sing for the Moment is the best example of how Em's next album should sound. The sampling is genius and hypnotic. It goes beyond being a rap song to rap music.

I think some of the topics I am discussing may be beyond this forum's intellect.

[infinite2hts]

Eminem sounds best on his own beats (Dre's too). He is an artist where i look for the Lyrics and Delivery. All i want for the next album is Em over simple stripped down beats. We cant judge his production skills with just one freestyle tho. If he handles a whole project like TES then we will have some memorable beats with a cohesive sound.

[_Hawk_]

Listen to Good Kid Maad City. The production is fluid and consistent with each song tying in perfectly with its predecessor. That is what I want from an Eminem album.
I agree that he is good over simple beats, but he has been very safe production wise; only Recovery showed that he is not always adept at choosing good beats.

I am not suggesting he alter his style completely, but if he is to produce his next album mostly himself, he really needs to pull the cat out of the bag.

[Sam.]

Eminem doesn't produce as much as Kanye does. Kanye has a better experience in it. Eminem on the other hand produces maybe a dozen songs every year(released/unreleased), which when compared to Kanye is less. Kanye is predominantly a producer 1st and then a Rapper. Just look at the amount of Lyrics in his Album, just 20% of the final product. Eminem has to concentrate on his Lyrics MORE. Remember in a Relapse Interview he said that he let Dre make the beats all on his own so he can focus on the writing process? That's the key, he thinks about Lyrics all the time, not beats like Kanye.

Of course his beats may not seem appealing to you. He keeps it simple, and that's the thang. No one needs a beat filled with stupid electronic sounds and shit. His music doesn't belong to 'Dance and Soul' Genre lol. He's not Dre. Hell, even Dre uses ghost written Lyrics and is just a producer and a performer. You should be content that he(Eminem) Rap and does produces decent beats. Beautiful is a prime example of his skills as a producer, it has such a unique sound to it. You're comparing a full fledged producer(cum Rapper) to Rapper who produces rarely? That's not even valid. And FYI Eminem's beats do shit on majority of Kanye's beats - Fact.

Compare his work with someone who produces as much as Eminem; that's would be good and worthy for comparison.

[NeverSincerely]

I agree. I really hope if he's producing a majority of the next solo that he can be more innovative with his beats. While I don't mind his production, it can be monotonous at times. TES is probably my least favorite of his solo albums to listen to casually because of the production. I'm not saying it isn't a great album, but unless you're actively listening to everything he's saying, the album is a bit, dare I say it, boring. Simple beats is fine for a few songs, but I'd rather not have another album full of them.

[NeverSincerely]

I agree. I really hope if he's producing a majority of the next solo that he can be more innovative with his beats. While I don't mind his production, it can be monotonous at times. TES is probably my least favorite of his solo albums to listen to casually because of the production. I'm not saying it isn't a great album, but unless you're actively listening to everything he's saying, the album is a bit, dare I say it, boring. Simple beats is fine for a few songs, but I'd rather not have another album full of them.

[Sam.]

It does get a little monotonous, though, but definitely not boring.

[mwm5952]

This is a great topic to discuss. I find it hard to believe that anyone would argue that Em is a better PRODUCER than kanye. Obviously, em has made some incredible beats, but for the most part, he is obviously focused more on the lyrics and feel of his songs than he is in the beat making process. Kanye started off as a producer, and evolved into a rapper. To say it's not fair to compare the two is not an accurate statement, but its similar to saying that LeBron can't be as good as Jordan because he focuses on getting his teammates involved in the game as opposed to just worrying about getting his. They affect the game in different ways, much like Em and Kanye do. Kanye, although I really dislike the majority of his stuff, has changed the game with his beats. Em took the game to another level with his lyrics.

People have made this point before me, but it's true that Em sounds great on simple beats. The simple beats bring his lyricism to the forefront of the song, which to me, and it seems like many others, is the main focus of the song. That's why we, or I, want Em or Dre to produce the majority of this album. They know what it takes to make him sound incredible, as opposed to having to strain to hear him over the beat like we had to do on Recovery.