You know what's retarded?

[DƎRDYPK]

Why can't Copywrite? Simple: he's not as good as Eminem at songwriting.

I call bullshit

[Bistnal]

Heh, you and Cole MUST hear the song "Pozeriste", by Marchelo. Its funny, its like he was thinkin exactly about you two when he wrote that.

EDIT: People who divide music in categories such as mainstream ("fake music") and underground ("real music") are the exact same people that are ruinin the industry. Not mainstream fans, not mainstream artists, YOU guys. So drop that "Im a rebel" act and face the reality: you´re not cool cuz you listen to underground. I dont approve cliches either, but if somethin is quality...its quality. Whether it has over 100 million views on Youtube or just 250 views.

As usual, just my 2 cents, heh.

Wic popping in once in a while to add some logic to debates like this lol:D

[AbramIsaac]

I've always held the contention that Lady Gaga sucks because she's popular...and for that reason alone.

[DƎRDYPK]

I also call bullshit on Wic Kid's post
it's like he's saying if we divide good music & bad music we're super villains or something
oh yeah fuck da mainstream

[classthe_king]

Why can't Copywrite? Simple: he's not as good as Eminem at songwriting.

I call bullshit

Now that's bullshit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E14K9pNmATI > 98% of Eminem's songs.

And Wic Kid, shut the fuck up. Can you guys not understand what I'm saying. I know quality when I see it, 95% of mainstream music is not quality. 75% of people in America are fucking retarted so what's popular sucks. That's what is killing america not us. We aren't seperating it between mainstream and underground music we are seperating it as good and bad music, just so happens its the same thing.

[katha]

Heh, this is going in circles here. Might as well contribute. I think it's bullshit to say that music has some sort of inherent worth or claim to moral superiority just because it's "underground" or not well known. True, you often have to make compromises to make it big. And much of pop in particular is generic bubblegum stuff. But many artists are also unknown...because they're not that good. You have to decide on the individual case.

But it is possible to sell big and still make good music. That's not a contradiction. Has never been one. By this "he's popular now, so he's sould out" logic, Eminem was a sell-out from the SSLP days on, because he always sold like crazy. Or, another logic, he did a song "that girls liked" with Stan already ten years ago. Dido has no great artistic credentials either IMO. But the hook was good and perfectly worked for the song, so he used it.

He would have been an ass had he written LTWYL and not offered it to Rihanna first. And that song is brilliant. I don't care if it's played 300 times an hour and all the annoying twelve year olds plaster their profiles with the lyrics. It's Eminem at his best: Taking away people's safe and simple ideas about a particular issue and making it all ambiguous and complex and grey. No neat happy ending, uplifiting message or easy and undeserved resolution.

Now, Not Afraid has been mentioned, that's IMO the song you could target for pandering to stupidity and mainstream: Relapse wasn't a bad album, the verses are lame, the chorus is some sort of half-baked attempt at sounding like Bon Jovi. Or is it Nickelback? But I would say that even if the song wasn't popular. So I slam him for the song. Because I think it's bad. Not for its popularity.

Again, winning some sort of "Cool Olympics" has nothing to do with the quality of the music. If Eminem started pandering to elitist "hip hop heads" (whatever and whoever that is) I would slam him for that as well. Because being more concerned about his image and being perceived as "girly" for working with Rihanna than about making a powerful song would make him a first class idiot. But fortunately Eminem seems to have his priorities mostly straight as an artists.

ETA: @classthe_king I was ranting about the topic in general. Though this whole "he appeals to girls now, so he's stupid" thing bothers me, I admit.

[classthe_king]

Heh, this is going in circles here. Might as well contribute. I think it's bullshit to say that music has some sort of inherent worth or claim to moral superiority just because it's "underground" or not well known. True, you often have to make compromises to make it big. And much of pop in particular is generic bubblegum stuff. But many artists are also unknown...because they're not that good. You have to decide on the individual case.

But it is possible to sell big and still make good music. That's not a contradiction. Has never been one. By this "he's popular now, so he's sould out" logic, Eminem was a sell-out from the SSLP days on, because he always sold like crazy. Or, another logic, he did a song "that girls liked" with Stan already ten years ago. Dido has no great artistic credentials either IMO. But the hook was good and perfectly worked for the song, so he used it.

He would have been an ass had he written LTWYL and not offered it to Rihanna first. And that song is brilliant. I don't care if it's played 300 times an hour and all the annoying twelve year olds plaster their profiles with the lyrics. It's Eminem at his best: Taking away people's safe and simple ideas about a particular issue and making it all ambiguous and complex and grey. No neat happy ending, uplifiting message or easy and undeserved resolution.

Now, Not Afraid has been mentioned, that's IMO the song you could target for pandering to stupidity and mainstream: Relapse wasn't a bad album, the verses are lame, the chorus is some sort of half-baked attempt at sounding like Bon Jovi. Or is it Nickelback? But I would say that even if the song wasn't popular. So I slam him for the song. Because I think it's bad. Not for its popularity.

Again, winning some sort of "Cool Olympics" has nothing to do with the quality of the music. If Eminem started pandering to elitist "hip hop heads" (whatever and whoever that is) I would slam him for that as well. Because being more concerned about his image and being perceived as "girly" for working with Rihanna than about making a powerful song would make him a first class idiot. But fortunately Eminem seems to have his priorities mostly straight as an artists.

Do you even read what I write or did you just decide to go on a rant about nothing I have said.

[classthe_king]

Now that's bullshit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E14K9pNmATI > 98% of Eminem's songs.

Um, NO.

Despite the song being decent, with some nice lines like "to my loved ones I lost, to my lost ones I loved"... it has absolutely NOTHING on a whole host of Eminem songs. It's not even as good as some of Copywrite's other stuff... only the third verse holds up.

Copywrite is dope, but his rhyming tends to fall off a little in concept songs... he repeats a lot of rhymes (wheels fall off/heels fall off... best gin/best friend... try to get it/try to hit it... meet again/speak again... weak again... LOST that too/LOST in June/LOST too soon).

Some Eminem songs that shit all over this (just to list a few): Brain Damage, My Fault, Rock Bottom, As The World Turns, '97 Bonnie & Clyde, If I Had, Criminal, Kim, The Kids, Stan, Lose Yourself, Stimulate, Say Goodbye Hollywood, Sing For The Moment, Deja Vu. Yes, I'd even rate Going Through Changes above this... hell, even You're Never Over is a better executed tribute song for a friend.

Might wanna spell retarded correctly when you call 75% of an entire nation's population retarded too.

The truth is this: a lot of idiotic, bad rappers like Immortal Technique and Canibus aren't "dope" because they're underground... they're underground because they suck. GOOD underground rappers like Copywrite who have talent just haven't been as lucky as Eminem was.

We can agree to disagree on how good that song is because I would only rank Rock Bottom and Sing For The Moment ahead of it.

And yes, spelling is my downfall

And for the record, I doubt really like Canibus at all. And I'm not the biggest fan of IT either, I just enjoy some songs like Dancing with the Devil, Point of No Return and Revolutionary

[MakaveliTheDon]

Seems like yesterday it was basically this forum who only knew about Eminem

I know exactly what you mean.

People were like "ooh, who's this new guy??"

When I hear that I wanna kill myself

[classthe_king]

I like Dancing with the Devil... it's pretty good story-telling.

Can't stand his political raps like Point of no Return, though.

I just love the beat and they way he raps over it, that song bumps in the car.

[Solace]

Menzo, it "loses its personal value" if it blows up on radio, but it doesn't make the song objectively worse, does it?

I agree with this. Also, it's like when you hear an amazing song and overplay it. Once your bored if it, yeah you stop listening to it but that doesn't mean it somehow becomes a worse song.

[classthe_king]

That's like me in the mirror trying to hit my reflection
Cause the second we met we had an instant connection
And i'm leavin the scene of a fight, hittin depression
Tryin to hide my pride like it's witness protection
But inside I died like my livers infested
And i'm sippin the best gin, missin my best friend

[Wic Kid]

I also call bullshit on Wic Kid's post
it's like he's saying if we divide good music & bad music we're super villains or something
oh yeah fuck da mainstream

Haha, yeah, thats EXACTLY what i was sayin. You're a supervillain.

Jesus fuckin christ...

[DƎRDYPK]

I also call bullshit on Wic Kid's post
it's like he's saying if we divide good music & bad music we're super villains or something
oh yeah fuck da mainstream

Haha, yeah, thats EXACTLY what i was sayin. You're a supervillain.

I know this though :/