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If Encore had been Eminem's debut album...

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Re: If Encore had been Eminem's debut album...

Postby infinite2hts » Jun 2nd, '13, 18:54

encore as a whole is not shitty, its just the middle part is so fucked-puke, rainman, big weenie, my first single. i detest them. everything else is objectively either decent or great. so the album is definitely overhated and above 5/10 if rated in general quality standard (and not compared to first 3 album standard)
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Re: If Encore had been Eminem's debut album...

Postby Atone » Jun 2nd, '13, 19:04

Oh joy another encore thread, let's find a pipe, and a dead horse, come on everybody let's go beat it
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Re: If Encore had been Eminem's debut album...

Postby Sam. » Jun 2nd, '13, 19:07

Not possible. Even if it was his 1st, we wouldn't be talking about it.
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Re: If Encore had been Eminem's debut album...

Postby EminemInsider » Jun 3rd, '13, 08:48

SajN wrote:Aaaand the same useless thread about Encore again... which we've had since 2005.


Point out a single thread in history that made the point that if Encore had been Eminem's debut album, he would've been considered a joke in the hip hop community and never gotten respect from real rappers the way he has as a result of his earlier work.

You're just lumping all "Encore sucks" threads together into one category, which isn't fair because you could lump just about any thread on here into a given category of Eminem threads we've seen.

How many "TES is awesome" threads do we have? How many, "Eminem has corny punchlines now" threads do we have?



EminemBase wrote:No he wouldn't have... it was shit and silly music for the most part... but you can still tell Em has a major grasp of melody and can rap. Vanilla Ice wasn't a musician or a rapper, he had no rhythm or flow, the guy plain out can't rap. Even on 'Encore', Em can rap.

The guy rapping "Mosh" wouldn't be seen as a joke.

The guy rapping "Just Lose It" would be seen as annoying, which Em was seen as in '99 anyway with "My Name Is", to most he was just a cheesy white guy rapping an annoying hook.

He got people's attention with his concepts ("Stan") and his anger ("The Way I Am"), and when I say attention I mean respect for him as an artist and not just an aimless provocateur.

'Encore' has some good rap, some average rap and some downright awful music... but you can still tell the fkn guy on the record is a talented artist, you can hear it in his writing, his self-deprecation on "Evil Deeds", the little self-jibes, his phrasing... even though he was at his worst, Em never would have been looked at as a joke, regardless of what album he came out with.


Vanilla Ice's flow was no different than most mainstream rappers'. Nobody was saying, "that guy can't flow." They were saying, "novelty act cornball," and then he became despised in the hip hop community when he started lying about where he grew up.

Eminem got respect from rap fans right away because he brought the underground to the mainstream. His skill was undeniable. The people hating on My Name Is were generally the non-rap fans anyway. "Look at this white guy who thinks he's black, what a joker. Rap isn't music. Rap is crap."

If Eminem debuted with Just Lose It, he's "Vanilla Ice, only somehow even worse." And you know what would be said about the guy who made Mosh? "This cat can't flow. At all."
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Re: If Encore had been Eminem's debut album...

Postby EminemBase » Jun 3rd, '13, 10:00

EminemInsider wrote:Vanilla Ice's flow was no different than most mainstream rappers'. Nobody was saying, "that guy can't flow." They were saying, "novelty act cornball," and then he became despised in the hip hop community when he started lying about where he grew up.

Eminem got respect from rap fans right away because he brought the underground to the mainstream. His skill was undeniable. The people hating on My Name Is were generally the non-rap fans anyway. "Look at this white guy who thinks he's black, what a joker. Rap isn't music. Rap is crap."

If Eminem debuted with Just Lose It, he's "Vanilla Ice, only somehow even worse." And you know what would be said about the guy who made Mosh? "This cat can't flow. At all."


Well by the standards of those days maybe you're right, maybe his flow wasn't THAT bad, BUT, his content was insanely corny and his lyrics were terrible...

Now granted, "Just Lose It" is fucking AWFUL and ridiculous, and easily I think the worst song Em has ever made... BUTT, as terrible as it is, you can STILL tell there's talent burried beneath. Even his lines about MJ etc.... it shows he's self-aware and he also phrases things in a cathchy and unique way, you can tell he's aware and humorous even in a song as shit and stupid as that...

Where as, Vanilla Ice wasn't humourous, artistic... anything... he was deadly serious in trying to sound very very cool, with ridiculous lyrics and a ridiculous dance routine... it's entirely different.

And you're saying people would say he couldn't flow with "Mosh"? I disagree. I think it's intentionally slow and grinding to get the point across, it's a style...

Regardless of how bad he got, lines like:

"Look in his eyes, it's all lies
The stars and stripes have been swiped, washed out and wiped
And replaced with his own face - mosh now or die!"

< That is still well-written and impactful IMO. That sounds good to me, it's slick, it's well-phrased... Vanilla Ice's lyrics are completely tone deaf empty. They have no spark, no insight, no intelligence, no humour; it's just a retarded man desperately trying to SELL music.

It's not comparable at all as Eminem is a great lyricist, even when he's at his worst he came out with lines that were unique... Vanilla Ice on the other hand isn't any kind of lyricist...

Those lines I quoted... no, somebody who came out with them would not be looked at as a joke under any circumstances. I think what would have likely been the case is... people would have found the album to be a disappointing start / unfilled promise for a rapper with good potential.
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Re: If Encore had been Eminem's debut album...

Postby Kill You » Jun 3rd, '13, 13:04

Wow, this fucking thread again? Let's stop all these "what ifs", they're pointless. What if Lil Wayne wasn't complete garbage? He is. What if Drake wasn't a complete faggot? He is. What could have been doesn't change what is.
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Re: If Encore had been Eminem's debut album...

Postby SajN » Jun 3rd, '13, 13:05

Kill You wrote:Wow, this fucking thread again? Let's stop all these "what ifs", they're pointless. What if Lil Wayne wasn't complete garbage? He is. What if Drake wasn't a complete faggot? He is. What could have been doesn't change what is.

What if I told you that I agree
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Re: If Encore had been Eminem's debut album...

Postby CrashBand » Jun 3rd, '13, 13:46

Base, I extremely doubt your dad's 50 year old heavy rock fan knows much about rap, lol.

But good for him for liking it.
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Re: If Encore had been Eminem's debut album...

Postby Trimss » Jun 3rd, '13, 13:50

One of the reasons why I hate Encore is that it seems like a spoof, a parody of Eminem's older albums. It seems like he tried to recreate everything that worked and make it wacker.
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Re: If Encore had been Eminem's debut album...

Postby sbolli1 » Jun 3rd, '13, 14:20

Trimss wrote:One of the reasons why I hate Encore is that it seems like a spoof, a parody of Eminem's older albums. It seems like he tried to recreate everything that worked and make it wacker.


Didn't ya know, that was all intentional :whistle:
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Re: If Encore had been Eminem's debut album...

Postby EminemBase » Jun 3rd, '13, 15:49

CrashBand wrote:Base, I extremely doubt your dad's 50 year old heavy rock fan knows much about rap, lol.

But good for him for liking it.


...That was exactly my point lol. :confusion:
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Re: If Encore had been Eminem's debut album...

Postby BigBoss » Jun 3rd, '13, 16:27

Meh. He still probably would get the fame he has now
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Re: If Encore had been Eminem's debut album...

Postby CrashBand » Jun 3rd, '13, 19:01

EminemBase wrote:
CrashBand wrote:Base, I extremely doubt your dad's 50 year old heavy rock fan knows much about rap, lol.

But good for him for liking it.


...That was exactly my point lol. :confusion:

I thought you were using him liking it as a part of the justification for Eminem not being terrible on it.
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Re: If Encore had been Eminem's debut album...

Postby EminemBase » Jun 4th, '13, 10:43

CrashBand wrote:I thought you were using him liking it as a part of the justification for Eminem not being terrible on it.


No my point was that to a non-rap fan or a non-Eminem fan with no expectations or familiarity with his past work; it may seem like a great album to them, as it did to him.

I'm not saying he's not terrible on it, just that it's highly emphasized due to what we expect and the quality of his prior albums.

If somebody had never heard or seen of Eddie Murphy before and the first time they saw him was in 'Daddy Day Care'... they may go "wow, this guy is a talented comic actor", but to anybody who knew him from 'Delirious' and 'Raw' they'll say "what the fuck is Eddie doing"... so, that's what I mean.
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