#teamMMLP2>SSLP

[Amadeo]

What's wrong with loving a 41 year old anyway?

What I find strange is that we all just invent standards of maturity out of thin air. "41 year olds shouldn't be rapping. It's immature." Why is it immature? If it's fine to be rapping in your 20s, why is it not fine to be rapping in your 50s?

More broadly, a lot of people seem to have this idea built into them that you have to be doing this at Age X, and that at Age Y. Aren't you a little old to be watching <Insert Movie>? Aren't you a little old to be reading comic books? Aren't you a little old to be playing video games?

Who says these things are immature, and how did they reach this conclusion?

[CrashBand]

shit that's made to be accessible for kids usually has less quality and aren't as developed intellectually and emotionally. i think a lot things that could be inserted in ur examples wouldn't contain any substance, or, perhaps unfairly, would be viewed to contain little substance. "why are you/aren't you a little old to be <wasting your time>"

that's not to say that reading something like Watchmen or playing The Last of Us is in any way immature - because they are well-developed. but obviously some people conflate them with the simple shit that's aimed at kids.

not sure about the rapping. main reason why people find it unappealing is probably that it's not the norm. also, the quality may decrease.

[csw621]

Nobody wants to hear their grandfather rap.

[shadyblogger]

Fuck all you 41 year old man lovers, can't even give an opinion without getting attacked. Asshole is cringe worthy, mostly due to the beat and hook, yet still cringe worthy BOTTOM LINE. You fags are giving me shit for saying STIW sucks? UNBELIEVABLE... I can only imagine you grown men in your cars heading to your dead end jobs blasting and singing along to STIW, i hope you crash into a fucking tree while you got your phones out racing to TRshady to create your stronger than i was appreciation thread.

Lirl

[EminemInsider]

shit that's made to be accessible for kids usually has less quality and aren't as developed intellectually and emotionally. i think a lot things that could be inserted in ur examples wouldn't contain any substance, or, perhaps unfairly, would be viewed to contain little substance. "why are you/aren't you a little old to be <wasting your time>"

that's not to say that reading something like Watchmen or playing The Last of Us is in any way immature - because they are well-developed. but obviously some people conflate them with the simple shit that's aimed at kids.

not sure about the rapping. main reason why people find it unappealing is probably that it's not the norm. also, the quality may decrease.

That's no more true for things made for kids than it is for things made for adults. You think most network TV sitcoms contain "quality" or are intelligent? How about reality TV? A lot of those old Jim Henson era Sesame Street muppet skits with Kermit the Frog and Cookie Monster are actually much more clever/intelligent than anything on Two and a Half Men or Jersey Shore, for example.

[CrashBand]

for sure, but like, they're only more mature in terms of having adult themes that children wouldn't understand. sex, drugs, relationships, sexuality etc etc. i.e. they contain some mature themes that are very explicitly mature.

but yea, someone getting stimulated by those examples aren't much different than someone getting stimulated by winnie the pooh, or whatever. still shallow and stupid, essentially just touch on different topics.

the only distinction i can think of is two and a half men, etc can easily be confused with well-developed shows. and simpsons, etc can easily be confused with undeveloped simple shows aimed at kids.

tbh, anything with satire can obviously go over people's heads. i.e. south park, Simpsons contain some mature themes that aren't very explicitly mature.

NB: winnie the pooh was a random (and probably incorrect example) but u get the point. the more i think about it winnie the pooh probably has quite a bit of substance.

[EminemInsider]

for sure, but like, they're only more mature in terms of having adult themes that children wouldn't understand. sex, drugs, relationships, sexuality etc etc. i.e. they contain some mature themes that are very explicitly mature.

but yea, someone getting stimulated by those examples aren't much different than someone getting stimulated by winnie the pooh, or whatever. still shallow and stupid, essentially just touch on different topics.

the only distinction i can think of is two and a half men, etc can easily be confused with well-developed shows. and simpsons, etc can easily be confused with undeveloped simple shows aimed at kids.

tbh, anything with satire can obviously go over people's heads. i.e. south park, Simpsons contain some mature themes that aren't very explicitly mature.

NB: winnie the pooh was a random (and probably incorrect example) but u get the point. the more i think about it winnie the pooh probably has quite a bit of substance.

The Simpsons was never aimed at kids. That just comes from morons who think that cartoons automatically = for kids, thanks to Disney. When cartoons originally started out, they were aimed exclusively at adults - used during previews in movie theaters. Take a look at some of those WW2 themed ones.

[CrashBand]

i think we're saying the same thing.

pretty much any intelligent person, if they aren't ignorant to the subject matter, won't judge people and think they're immature for liking simpsons/watchmen/eminem/south park/the last of us.

when someone like ed sheeran says he gets a lot of influence from eminem and bob dylan, people don't think that he's immature. or when someone like ricky gervais praises the simpsons. or when darren aronofsky cites anime as inspriation.

but some people stupidly/mistakenly group these things up with things that are speciously similar.

--

there's also the matter of things being perceived as cool of course.

[Elision]

MMLP2 is objectively better than SSLP in every aspect, I don't even see how this is a debate. SSLP was just more raw due to the sloppiness/grittiness of it, other than that there's nothing it has that MMLP2 doesn't (and then some)

[EminemInsider]

MMLP2 is objectively better than SSLP in every aspect, I don't even see how this is a debate. SSLP was just more raw due to the sloppiness/grittiness of it, other than that there's nothing it has that MMLP2 doesn't (and then some)

That's utterly ridiculous. It's the exact opposite. Sloppy is Eminem's awkward phrase splitting and forced syllable/word emphasis to try to point out rhyme schemes to the listener on MMLP2. He rarely even structured his lyrics to fit any type of beat and was largely ad-libbing (cramming) his "flow." Not to mention shouting at inappropriate times on his delivery and having several shitty choruses.

SSLP is technically perfect. What it has that MMLP2 doesn't is crisp, perfectly aligned rhyme schemes, perfect phrasing and flows that sound natural over the beat, and beats with subtleties that fit his style perfectly.

[CrashBand]

MMLP2 is objectively better than SSLP in every aspect, I don't even see how this is a debate. SSLP was just more raw due to the sloppiness/grittiness of it, other than that there's nothing it has that MMLP2 doesn't (and then some)

um. wow.

it has better versions of eminem's best attributes, and why people should be fans of him.

better writing, flow, and delivery.

the production could be argued wither way, but that was never the draw of eminem anyway, so who cares as it's not exceptional on either album.

[Amadeo]

Nobody talks like Eminem does on So Far. Nobody says, "Goddamnit, to hell, I --" then pauses awkwardly, and then continues their sentence, "-- can't stand all these kids with their camera cellphones."

"Trunk Music," as it is pronounced correctly, doesn't rhyme with "fucking bitch." Yet Eminem forces the two to rhyme by not stressing the second syllable of the former as it ought to be stressed in normal speech.

And yet I've seen Elision say that he prefers the sentence and word splitting on MMLP2. Which basically means he prefers lyricism to sound unnatural and forced.

Just because you prefer something, it doesn't necessarily mean it's good.

[Mr Change]

Nobody talks like Eminem does on So Far. Nobody says, "Goddamnit, to hell, I --" then pauses awkwardly, and then continues their sentence, "-- can't stand all these kids with their camera cellphones."

"Trunk Music," as it is pronounced correctly, doesn't rhyme with "fucking bitch." Yet Eminem forces the two to rhyme by not stressing the second syllable of the former as it ought to be stressed in normal speech.

And yet I've seen Elision say that he prefers the sentence and word splitting on MMLP2. Which basically means he prefers lyricism to sound unnatural and forced.

Just because you prefer something, it doesn't necessarily mean it's good.

Are you saying those two examples given aren't good writing??
or dont sound good?
jw what your opinion of them are

[Elision]

MMLP2 is objectively better than SSLP in every aspect, I don't even see how this is a debate. SSLP was just more raw due to the sloppiness/grittiness of it, other than that there's nothing it has that MMLP2 doesn't (and then some)

um. wow.

it has better versions of eminem's best attributes

such as?

better writing, flow, and delivery.

flow is subjective but how can you say anything on sslp tops the writing of legacy? or the delivery of love game's closing verse? what flow on sslp trumps what he did on baby for you? better yet what's one part of the entire sslp that em didn't do again but better on mmlp2?

Nobody talks like Eminem does on So Far. Nobody says, "Goddamnit, to hell, I --" then pauses awkwardly, and then continues their sentence, "-- can't stand all these kids with their camera cellphones."

That's probably because he's rapping on So Far, Amadeo.

"Trunk Music," as it is pronounced correctly, doesn't rhyme with "fucking bitch." Yet Eminem forces the two to rhyme by not stressing the second syllable of the former

right, it wouldn't have rhymed as well otherwise.

as it ought to be stressed in normal speech.

good thing these are lyrics and not a speech then, eh?

I've seen Elision say that he prefers the sentence and word splitting on MMLP2.

I said I enjoy it period, had nothing to do with MMLP2. Wouldn't say I necessarily prefer it though, depends on the flow/scheme at hand.

Which basically means he prefers lyricism to sound unnatural and forced.

It doesn't because I don't. Unless you consider sounding "natural" to be rapping like you're talking, which for me is rarely enjoyable and more often than not boring. I want to feel the energy and passion of whoever I'm listening to, I want you to sound like you're trying to take over the world when you get behind a mic, feel me? I fiend for weird/interesting flows that I haven't heard before and crazy patterns that I can hardly wrap my head around, if you can pull off those two things in conjunction you'll most likely have me as a fan. That's really as far as it goes for me man, it's not that I prefer lyrics to sound unnatural or forced, or that I only like a specific subgenre, it's that I want it to sound like you sat there writing that verse for hours with countless edits/rewrites until you've ended up with something that you feel you are simply incapable of sharpening any more. This is a feeling I get throughout most of MMLP2, but not so much on SSLP, or any of his other projects for that matter.

Just because you prefer something, it doesn't necessarily mean it's good.

never suggested otherwise.

[csw621]

I don't mind em cutting sentences in half to fit a certain flow but it does bother me when he does it during a word or phrase he knows you want to hear correctly. ie "the real slim..........shady" or "lose your..........self". Also Elision is right about mmlp2 having a feeling of perfection and completion that none of his previous albums have except maybe tes