Why Do Nas and Jay Get a Pass, But Eminem Doesn't?

[SliK]

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Embase >

Lol. Fucking EminemBase.

[CrashBand]

@Amadeo, I think Eminem's writing is (unfortunately) becoming Tech N9ne-esque, where he is focusing more on the sound and the flow.

Listen to My life.

[Solace]

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Have a look around this thread.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=116824&hilit=royce+vs.+yelawolf&start=150

Embase >

Lmfao holy fuck

[CrashBand]

Not on Recovery, and not necessarily multis. But the choppy flows, I actually think, are attempts at trying to create cool/unique flows. Putting heaps of emphasis on certain syllYlables, hitting the snare and shit.

buzz heavy/spuhgetti/buh-genning/uh-ffending/elec-truh-city.

Ironically his flow is shit now.

And yeah, he was never in the same league as what Tech and Crooked I do, but more... leaning in that direction.

[King Lance]

I made a classic thread

@Amadeo, I think Eminem's writing is (unfortunately) becoming Tech N9ne-esque, where he is focusing more on the sound and the flow.

Listen to My life.

I hope you're wrong

hip hop = substance tbh

[EminemBase]

I when people try to argue that Relapse is a concept album.

The kind of shit Eminem writes on Relapse is not comparable to Tech N9ne.

Ignoring My Mom and Deja Vu (the songs with an actual concept), Eminem is mostly writing random multis. But there are many moments where he follows a certain train of thought for a few bars.

The third verse of Hello isn't random at all, if you listen to it. He's narrating in it, and the lines are relevant to his drug addiction.

There is loose narration in all three verses of Same Song & Dance.

The first 8 bars of 3AM is non-random narration. There are 6 bars in the third verse where he narrates killing his cousin. He impersonates Christopher Reeve for 8 bars. He shows off his serial killer documentary knowledge for about 10 bars in MBTG. The first verse of Insane is loose narration. There's an attempt at narration in the second verse of Stay Wide Awake.

Those aren't much, but it makes the album a hell of a lot less random than the shit Tech N9ne writes. Eminem is often attempting humor or doing other things to be entertaining in addition to the multis. From what I've heard, Tech N9ne does not care for anything other than sounding good.

It's not a concept in that it has a continuous story or overriding narrative, and I completely agree @ @ that perception or that it has any true track-to-track meaning...

However, it is conceptual in that Eminem is in-character for basically every track bar "Deja Vu" (which does come after a skit about overdosing... in which he raps more realistically, commenting on the situation in a sober state - I really don't think that's a coincidence) (and "Beautiful" but don't consider that a Relapse track. But also comes after the overdose) - and it's true that Em goes in and out of character on every album but on Relapse it really is SSLP-esque in that he exists in a comic-book-like reality where no rules apply, he creates entirely fictional environments and is a sort of devilish character provoking and experimenting in the world around him...

And the difference between that and say TES... is even though on TES he similarly still utilizes unrealistic violence and provocation - he's always acknowledging reality at the same time and often back-handing the insane comment he just made and the material is ultimately based and revolving around true life. With Relapse this is not the case; he stays committed to the situation whether that's eating babies or raping women or getting raped by his step-dad... there is no wink to the camera mid action, he truly describes and lives the fictional character and tales.

So it is conceptual in that sense, and the pre-album promotion did endorse the idea of him going on a fictional drug relapse where he murders and rapes. So I do think the loose concept is just 'Em relapses, becomes psychotic murdering rapist' - it's not much more than that and there's no structure, but it has to be called conceptual as it's certainly not Eminem as Eminem or an overly realistic album. And there is recurring actions of the fictional character / situation at hand which = drug/murder/rape rampage that happens over and over throughout, until Mr. Mathers.

There is no serious contemplation, true introspection, real-life tales or real-life moments until after Mr. Mathers. Every single track is in an entirely fictional landscape and set of rules and contains him popping pills, terrorizing society or women and parodying his life or some situations and turning them in to fictional madness. But just like Encore where the loose concept was him performing one last show and then killing himself... he couldn't stick to the concept start to finish; he committed to it far more with Relapse, but just compromised at the end, weakly polluting the set forever.

I see it as if I was watching a comedian on stage, and let's say they were BRILLIANT and compelling for 59 minutes, then in the 60th minute they completely blank on a joke, they flub a line and flop, there's no laughs - just awkward and cringing silence as they turn bright red and demolish the ending... everybody would walk away talking about THAT and not the brilliant 59 minutes they had witnessed prior, even though 99% of the show was perfect. That's Relapse for me.

I think that's evidence of 'relapse from here to here. Overdose: wake-up'. And then you have the two piece of shit tracks that ruin the album tacked on as singles after that, and "Underground", which sounds nothing like the rest of Relapse either, probably tacked on to end the album on a dark note as apposed to a faggy, shitty, compromised pair of singles note.

[dead prez]

Deep, dark exploration of the human psyche? No, it's not. It's Em putting a strange twist on a reflective album.

Hahaha, I was obviously parodying your exaggerated attempts at writing a thesis paper towards an album and claiming it a concept album just because it has a few songs which stay under given parameters the album has. I.e. being “serial killer” songs in an album where the main goddamn concept is about a serial killer. You’re argument can be applied towards any gangsta/Mafioso/etc album which have songs that stay within the given parameters of said albums but are nonlinear and follow no overarching plotline. You’re giving the chef a handjob for making something edible.

Nonetheless, you did compare Relapse to Tech N9ne's stuff, while at the same time not knowing that much about Tech (since you apparently "don't give one shit"). Assumptions much? Sorry I didn't talk about Rhyme Asylum. I actually like their shit, therefore I'm not going to argue with you on the subject.

I’m well aware of Tech N9ne and found the majority of his songs forgettable seeing as how he’s also a massive style over substance like Relapse, no matter how much you deny it the main appeal of Relapse to a fuckload of people and the reason why it has such a high replay value isn’t because of its brilliant concept (loll), it’s pretty damn generic for the most part. It’s cause of the astounding quantity of multies with a few exceptions (Same Song and Dance, My Mom, Déjà vu). And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with indulging in it plenty of fans (Amadeo, MikeNUFC) enjoy it for it what it is and aren’t trying to prop it up to more than what it really is. Hell Eminem himself would probably be shocked and dumbfounded that you would claim this is a concept album.

I won't argue with the fact that Em forced multis on this album, and that he rhymed a fuckload on this album. But to say that's the main focus of the album is fucking retarded.

Oh hey finally we’re getting somewhere. And it absolutely is the main appeal of the album, it might not be his intention, and he might have been trying to make an album with songs that aren’t just “lol multies” but if you can’t see that’s why so many people love the damn album (as well as his insane flows in it) than I don’t know what to tell you.

So dark and so cold, my friends don't know this other side of me
There's a monster inside of me, it's quite ugly and it frightens me
But they can't see what I can see, there's a vacancy in my tummy
It's making me play hide-and-seek, like Jason I'm so hungry
She's naked, see, no privacy but I can see she wants me
So patient, see, I try to be but gee, why does she taunt me?
Pulls the drapes and she goes right to sleep, I creep right through the front
See, so blatantly but silently cause I know that she's sound sleep
"Who's waking me so violently and why's he on top of me?
He's raping me," she tries to scream, "Somebody please get him off me
He's taping me, he's biting me, he's laughing like it's funny"
She's scraping me, she's fighting me, she's scratching like some dumb freak
Escaping me, no dice, you see, I might just be Ted Bundy
Or Satan, gee what a sight to see, I'm dancing in my red panties
I'm crazy but it's all right with me, man life can be so empty
Stay away from me cause I'm dancing to quite a different drumbeat

I'm not seeing any fucking forced multis or barrages of imagery here. While still managing to rhyme and keep up a great flow, he tells the story of his breaking and entering and subsequent assault. Switching from perspective to perspective smoothly and it sounds good.

FYI, when I say forced multies I don’t mean he’s bending words to make shit rhyme or that he uses his accent to get that extra syllable, I actually don’t give a shit about that type of stuff. And can enjoy it, I’m not some OCD freak who has a meltdown because he stretched a syllable to rhyme another syllable or enunciated a word he otherwise wouldn’t have because the song calls for it.

I’m talking about when the lyrics are utter cowshit, and undermine the greatness of his skill and the potential said songs have. Like who the hell gives a shit about “the vacancy in his tummy” or where the hell does “Jason I’m so hungry line” come from? That said the second verse of Stay Wide Awake is one of the better serial killer verses in the album, try Medicine Ball or the second and third verses of Insane for a proper example of him just spewing nonsense. Also like I’ve said before the Accent ruins many songs in this album for me, I know why the hell he undertook said accent as he’s supposed to be roleplaying some sort of serial killer. And if that’s meant to make him more menacing than lol, even if I for some reason accept your argument that Relapse is a Concept album that still doesn’t mean he executed it well.

Were you not reading? I told you about the concept. The entirety of the album is Em's "serial killer" parody of his persona, his career, and his music, before coming to an abrupt end when we find out that he's simply been passed out on the bathroom floor.

Lol you acting like Relapse is some Meta-breakdown of his entire career is quite hilarious. The only times it really gets meta and self-referential is post Déjà vu, the majority of the album is just him having fun with a serial killer persona. Hey I guess Reasonable Doubt is a concept album because Jay-z gets meta and brooding recounting tales of his days as a hustler except you can see it as an exaggerated Scarface Homage=your argument.

Prince of Thieves is fucking awesome, mate

Of course it is, my taste is impeccable.

I think Em was trying to explain that he was....oh, I don't know...what was the word I was looking for? Oh yeah. INSANE. You know, the song title. A serious song? Why the fuck would a song starting out as "I was born with a dick in my brain" be serious? Not only is it Em exaggerating his father issues, it's a parody of his "shock" songs.

Being a parody doesn’t give him a free pass to come up with shitty lines which he probably were thought were legitimately clever (see Recovery for what I mean). Also part of what made Eminem great was that he could mask serious topics with humor, have you learned nothing from SSLP? Hell he does that a fuckload of times in that album see Brain Damage, JDGAF, and As The World Turns. Brain Damage and As The World Turns are humorous recounts of his childhood yet it doesn’t a genius to see that underneath it, he was masking his depression with humor. I mean JDGAF, the cartoonish flippant side is his of way blocking out the fact that he hates the way things are turning in his life.

And this is what’s wrong with Insane, it tries to be a parody but I don’t find it funny or humorous at all and just find immature.

Once again, I am fully aware that Relapse has flaws.

If you did than you would have known better than to bait a dragon who is more than capable of defending himself and giving legitimate reasons as to why he thinks Relapse sucks, but you did and now like at the mess we’re in.

Warped fan theory? This is Em establishing his serial killer persona and his background. I don't see what's so fucking "warped" about it. When has Em EVER thrown a song into an album JUST for "the fuck of it"?

Occam’s Razor, it’s called taking the simplest most logical explanation possible rather than stretching it and overcomplicating a simple issue more than it needs to be. I’m saying that Mariah Carey diss had no basis to be in the album other than it fits and why not, also this isn’t Eminem 10-12 years ago where it was obvious he was a meticulous perfectionist. This is Eminem well past that and the fact that he’s comfortable sacrificing substance for quantity shows that it’s not beneath him, also calm down it’s not like it’s exceedingly glaring filler.

I thought that would've been obvious, but I guess not. It's a parody of songs like "My Name Is", and "I'm Back". Hello starts off quite innocently (for an Em song). It's him rapping about alcohol and women. But then in the third verse, we see (surprise surprise) it's just him reminiscing about his past and about his downward spiral into drug use:

Tirelessly on the phone trying to russle up, muscle relaxants
For his back, and a couple of Pax's, now he's doubling backwards
And he's stumbling back, slipped and fell, hit his back bone
Heard something go crack, Now he's up in the bathroom

Without missing a beat, Em suddenly switches topics, giving the feeling that something's not right. But before he can elaborate on the topic, he abruptly ends the verse and goes with the hook, which leads to the next song.

Lol, nowhere at all does it give off a vibe that he’s a serial killer or that it continues the theme. If anything it hurts your argument as it’s utterly jarring and disrupts the flow of the previous songs where he has a serial killer vibe, it’s just him being whimsical and flippant something that he’s had all the way up to even in the Eminem show. When he supposedly “matured” in that album, and so what if it’s a recount or it just being a flashback, not seeing how this helps your argument?

This is actually one of the decent songs on the album and he actually tells a cohesive narrative in this song rather than assaulting you with a barrage of random imagery, drugs, and cringy phrases. Notice how his multies seem more potent because he isn’t just stringing together random words with no cohesion? Hell the last few lines of his second verse are great and if could have kept up this quality through the whole album I would have understood why some people think this album’s good-great.

No argument here.

You know by agreeing with this you’re unwittingly agreeing with my stance on what’s wrong with Relapse and what could have made it better, just FYI.

Yes it's the obligatory "single" that most rap records have. I honestly don't like the song, but I understand it's place. As much as this is severely different from anything Em has done before, it's STILL an Em album, and it needs a single. Despite that, he manages to sneak a few weird lines in there, giving the feeling that this is another weird perspective.

Are you really defending this jarring single and its place in the album with “It’s an Eminem album”? Like that somehow absolves him of the criteria going into creating a concept album? Hell Wu Tang had fucking singles that did not disrupt the flow of their albums (36 Chambers), don’t try and defend this with he need to appease the fans. I know it cuts your argument at the knees and throws it under speeding a freight train by me bringing it up, but c’mon man.

It's an exaggeration of Em's obsession with Christopher Reeves. I don't see the problem with it. Yes, some of the lines simply sound random, but that's how Em works.

Some try the whole goddamn song, and is your rebuttal to calling “some” of the lines wacky and out of place DEAL WITH IT?

In case you weren't listening, this is an album mainly about murder. This is (serial killer) Em focusing on a different part of it; the actual killing. And yeah, subtle multies are good, but I don't see a problem with multis in plain sight.

Just like illmatic is an album about a guy recounting his life in the hood with each song being a different spin/interpretation to it. Just like Reasonable Doubt is an album mainly about Mafioso and each song has a different spin or interpretation to his life as a gangster. Just like every goddamn Gangsta rap album follows the same set of themes in the album and each song is just a different spin to that theme.

And I don’t hate overt multies, I’m saying I don’t prefer an assload of multies when the content takes a backseat or you could tell that he wrote his verses around the damn rhymes. I’m saying I prefer subtle less manic verses with less overall multies but the rhymes feel like an indelible part of the song where you don’t even have to pay attention to them, get what I’m saying? For an phenomenal example listen of what I mean listen to the first verse of Dear God 2.0.

“
I find that last sentence hilariously ironic You know next to nothing about me, yet you're drawing conclusions by simply discussing a rapper's album. I don't see what I can argue against in this part of your argument. It's basically you going "No, you're wrong. THIS is the right answer. Listen to me, dammit! (insert baseless assumption)"

I don't understand where you're going with this, though yeah, I love playful rap. Ever heard of Lonely Island? Some of their shit is HILARIOUS.

While it may be presumptuous of me and of course I know next to nothing about you, I do however could tell from this little argument that you like to prop up something to be more than it really is when there isn’t sufficient evidence for that.

And what the hell was I supposed to refute you, said “murderous interpretations” I call bollox. Must Be the Ganja is the definition of filler, it doesn’t fit with the overall theme or “concept” of the album. Not to mention when the hell has Eminem ever stuck in the token “weed” songs in his albums? Who does he look like Snoop Dogg? Yeah I know he’s had a few throwaway songs based around smoking weed, the second verse is what makes the song so good. And is a perfect example as to how he could have gone in Relapse without trying to constantly go Slim Shady without falling flat on his face. Also LOL at Old Time’s Sake.

LOVE that insult, bro no seriously, can I use it? And yes, the accent grates on my fucking nerves sometimes, but I understand why it was there.

Lol everyone does, it’s not some big secret. It’s one of my biggest pet peeves with the albums, though it’s not really worth arguing as I guess it’s personal preference whether you like that “accent” or not.

I don't personally like the song, but it fits the concept. Em, now in the real world, has to come to grips with the fact that he hasn't rapped sober in years, and as such, his attempts to do so are awkward at first.

I do agree it fits the concept especially after Relapse and should have been the conclusion of the album. However it feels like nothing but a sulkfest when it could have been brutal self reflection in lieu of TES, except it’s more like Encore. I guess you could say Déjà vu is to TES as what this song is to Encore.

Are you really trying to argue this isn’t a soulless club track that completely disrupts the flow of the entire album tossed in simply to generate more revenue? If so than LOL

Falls flat on its face? How? How the FUCK does it fall flat on its face? Sans the detroit accent and high pitched voice, it sounds EXACTLY like the ridiculous shit Em used to come up with.

Because the lyrics are absolutely atrocious and you can tell it’s almost like he begging for approval from fans saying, “Look guys Slim Shady’s back” when the show ended 5 fucking minutes ago.

[sbolli1]

well congratulations on wasting time in your life writing such an unnecessarily long and arrogant argument on the internet

[EminemBase]

well congratulations on wasting time in your life writing such an unnecessarily long and arrogant argument on the internet

[Willy]

Deep, dark exploration of the human psyche? No, it's not. It's Em putting a strange twist on a reflective album.

Hahaha, I was obviously parodying your exaggerated attempts at writing a thesis paper towards an album and claiming it a concept album just because it has a few songs which stay under given parameters the album has. I.e. being “serial killer” songs in an album where the main goddamn concept is about a serial killer. You’re argument can be applied towards any gangsta/Mafioso/etc album which have songs that stay within the given parameters of said albums but are nonlinear and follow no overarching plotline. You’re giving the chef a handjob for making something edible.

Nonetheless, you did compare Relapse to Tech N9ne's stuff, while at the same time not knowing that much about Tech (since you apparently "don't give one shit"). Assumptions much? Sorry I didn't talk about Rhyme Asylum. I actually like their shit, therefore I'm not going to argue with you on the subject.

I’m well aware of Tech N9ne and found the majority of his songs forgettable seeing as how he’s also a massive style over substance like Relapse, no matter how much you deny it the main appeal of Relapse to a fuckload of people and the reason why it has such a high replay value isn’t because of its brilliant concept (loll), it’s pretty damn generic for the most part. It’s cause of the astounding quantity of multies with a few exceptions (Same Song and Dance, My Mom, Déjà vu). And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with indulging in it plenty of fans (Amadeo, MikeNUFC) enjoy it for it what it is and aren’t trying to prop it up to more than what it really is. Hell Eminem himself would probably be shocked and dumbfounded that you would claim this is a concept album.

I won't argue with the fact that Em forced multis on this album, and that he rhymed a fuckload on this album. But to say that's the main focus of the album is fucking retarded.

Oh hey finally we’re getting somewhere. And it absolutely is the main appeal of the album, it might not be his intention, and he might have been trying to make an album with songs that aren’t just “lol multies” but if you can’t see that’s why so many people love the damn album (as well as his insane flows in it) than I don’t know what to tell you.

So dark and so cold, my friends don't know this other side of me
There's a monster inside of me, it's quite ugly and it frightens me
But they can't see what I can see, there's a vacancy in my tummy
It's making me play hide-and-seek, like Jason I'm so hungry
She's naked, see, no privacy but I can see she wants me
So patient, see, I try to be but gee, why does she taunt me?
Pulls the drapes and she goes right to sleep, I creep right through the front
See, so blatantly but silently cause I know that she's sound sleep
"Who's waking me so violently and why's he on top of me?
He's raping me," she tries to scream, "Somebody please get him off me
He's taping me, he's biting me, he's laughing like it's funny"
She's scraping me, she's fighting me, she's scratching like some dumb freak
Escaping me, no dice, you see, I might just be Ted Bundy
Or Satan, gee what a sight to see, I'm dancing in my red panties
I'm crazy but it's all right with me, man life can be so empty
Stay away from me cause I'm dancing to quite a different drumbeat

I'm not seeing any fucking forced multis or barrages of imagery here. While still managing to rhyme and keep up a great flow, he tells the story of his breaking and entering and subsequent assault. Switching from perspective to perspective smoothly and it sounds good.

FYI, when I say forced multies I don’t mean he’s bending words to make shit rhyme or that he uses his accent to get that extra syllable, I actually don’t give a shit about that type of stuff. And can enjoy it, I’m not some OCD freak who has a meltdown because he stretched a syllable to rhyme another syllable or enunciated a word he otherwise wouldn’t have because the song calls for it.

I’m talking about when the lyrics are utter cowshit, and undermine the greatness of his skill and the potential said songs have. Like who the hell gives a shit about “the vacancy in his tummy” or where the hell does “Jason I’m so hungry line” come from? That said the second verse of Stay Wide Awake is one of the better serial killer verses in the album, try Medicine Ball or the second and third verses of Insane for a proper example of him just spewing nonsense. Also like I’ve said before the Accent ruins many songs in this album for me, I know why the hell he undertook said accent as he’s supposed to be roleplaying some sort of serial killer. And if that’s meant to make him more menacing than lol, even if I for some reason accept your argument that Relapse is a Concept album that still doesn’t mean he executed it well.

Were you not reading? I told you about the concept. The entirety of the album is Em's "serial killer" parody of his persona, his career, and his music, before coming to an abrupt end when we find out that he's simply been passed out on the bathroom floor.

Lol you acting like Relapse is some Meta-breakdown of his entire career is quite hilarious. The only times it really gets meta and self-referential is post Déjà vu, the majority of the album is just him having fun with a serial killer persona. Hey I guess Reasonable Doubt is a concept album because Jay-z gets meta and brooding recounting tales of his days as a hustler except you can see it as an exaggerated Scarface Homage=your argument.

Prince of Thieves is fucking awesome, mate

Of course it is, my taste is impeccable.

I think Em was trying to explain that he was....oh, I don't know...what was the word I was looking for? Oh yeah. INSANE. You know, the song title. A serious song? Why the fuck would a song starting out as "I was born with a dick in my brain" be serious? Not only is it Em exaggerating his father issues, it's a parody of his "shock" songs.

Being a parody doesn’t give him a free pass to come up with shitty lines which he probably were thought were legitimately clever (see Recovery for what I mean). Also part of what made Eminem great was that he could mask serious topics with humor, have you learned nothing from SSLP? Hell he does that a fuckload of times in that album see Brain Damage, JDGAF, and As The World Turns. Brain Damage and As The World Turns are humorous recounts of his childhood yet it doesn’t a genius to see that underneath it, he was masking his depression with humor. I mean JDGAF, the cartoonish flippant side is his of way blocking out the fact that he hates the way things are turning in his life.

And this is what’s wrong with Insane, it tries to be a parody but I don’t find it funny or humorous at all and just find immature.

Once again, I am fully aware that Relapse has flaws.

If you did than you would have known better than to bait a dragon who is more than capable of defending himself and giving legitimate reasons as to why he thinks Relapse sucks, but you did and now like at the mess we’re in.

Warped fan theory? This is Em establishing his serial killer persona and his background. I don't see what's so fucking "warped" about it. When has Em EVER thrown a song into an album JUST for "the fuck of it"?

Occam’s Razor, it’s called taking the simplest most logical explanation possible rather than stretching it and overcomplicating a simple issue more than it needs to be. I’m saying that Mariah Carey diss had no basis to be in the album other than it fits and why not, also this isn’t Eminem 10-12 years ago where it was obvious he was a meticulous perfectionist. This is Eminem well past that and the fact that he’s comfortable sacrificing substance for quantity shows that it’s not beneath him, also calm down it’s not like it’s exceedingly glaring filler.

I thought that would've been obvious, but I guess not. It's a parody of songs like "My Name Is", and "I'm Back". Hello starts off quite innocently (for an Em song). It's him rapping about alcohol and women. But then in the third verse, we see (surprise surprise) it's just him reminiscing about his past and about his downward spiral into drug use:

Tirelessly on the phone trying to russle up, muscle relaxants
For his back, and a couple of Pax's, now he's doubling backwards
And he's stumbling back, slipped and fell, hit his back bone
Heard something go crack, Now he's up in the bathroom

Without missing a beat, Em suddenly switches topics, giving the feeling that something's not right. But before he can elaborate on the topic, he abruptly ends the verse and goes with the hook, which leads to the next song.

Lol, nowhere at all does it give off a vibe that he’s a serial killer or that it continues the theme. If anything it hurts your argument as it’s utterly jarring and disrupts the flow of the previous songs where he has a serial killer vibe, it’s just him being whimsical and flippant something that he’s had all the way up to even in the Eminem show. When he supposedly “matured” in that album, and so what if it’s a recount or it just being a flashback, not seeing how this helps your argument?

This is actually one of the decent songs on the album and he actually tells a cohesive narrative in this song rather than assaulting you with a barrage of random imagery, drugs, and cringy phrases. Notice how his multies seem more potent because he isn’t just stringing together random words with no cohesion? Hell the last few lines of his second verse are great and if could have kept up this quality through the whole album I would have understood why some people think this album’s good-great.

No argument here.

You know by agreeing with this you’re unwittingly agreeing with my stance on what’s wrong with Relapse and what could have made it better, just FYI.

Yes it's the obligatory "single" that most rap records have. I honestly don't like the song, but I understand it's place. As much as this is severely different from anything Em has done before, it's STILL an Em album, and it needs a single. Despite that, he manages to sneak a few weird lines in there, giving the feeling that this is another weird perspective.

Are you really defending this jarring single and its place in the album with “It’s an Eminem album”? Like that somehow absolves him of the criteria going into creating a concept album? Hell Wu Tang had fucking singles that did not disrupt the flow of their albums (36 Chambers), don’t try and defend this with he need to appease the fans. I know it cuts your argument at the knees and throws it under speeding a freight train by me bringing it up, but c’mon man.

It's an exaggeration of Em's obsession with Christopher Reeves. I don't see the problem with it. Yes, some of the lines simply sound random, but that's how Em works.

Some try the whole goddamn song, and is your rebuttal to calling “some” of the lines wacky and out of place DEAL WITH IT?

In case you weren't listening, this is an album mainly about murder. This is (serial killer) Em focusing on a different part of it; the actual killing. And yeah, subtle multies are good, but I don't see a problem with multis in plain sight.

Just like illmatic is an album about a guy recounting his life in the hood with each song being a different spin/interpretation to it. Just like Reasonable Doubt is an album mainly about Mafioso and each song has a different spin or interpretation to his life as a gangster. Just like every goddamn Gangsta rap album follows the same set of themes in the album and each song is just a different spin to that theme.

And I don’t hate overt multies, I’m saying I don’t prefer an assload of multies when the content takes a backseat or you could tell that he wrote his verses around the damn rhymes. I’m saying I prefer subtle less manic verses with less overall multies but the rhymes feel like an indelible part of the song where you don’t even have to pay attention to them, get what I’m saying? For an phenomenal example listen of what I mean listen to the first verse of Dear God 2.0.

“
I find that last sentence hilariously ironic You know next to nothing about me, yet you're drawing conclusions by simply discussing a rapper's album. I don't see what I can argue against in this part of your argument. It's basically you going "No, you're wrong. THIS is the right answer. Listen to me, dammit! (insert baseless assumption)"

I don't understand where you're going with this, though yeah, I love playful rap. Ever heard of Lonely Island? Some of their shit is HILARIOUS.

While it may be presumptuous of me and of course I know next to nothing about you, I do however could tell from this little argument that you like to prop up something to be more than it really is when there isn’t sufficient evidence for that.

And what the hell was I supposed to refute you, said “murderous interpretations” I call bollox. Must Be the Ganja is the definition of filler, it doesn’t fit with the overall theme or “concept” of the album. Not to mention when the hell has Eminem ever stuck in the token “weed” songs in his albums? Who does he look like Snoop Dogg? Yeah I know he’s had a few throwaway songs based around smoking weed, the second verse is what makes the song so good. And is a perfect example as to how he could have gone in Relapse without trying to constantly go Slim Shady without falling flat on his face. Also LOL at Old Time’s Sake.

LOVE that insult, bro no seriously, can I use it? And yes, the accent grates on my fucking nerves sometimes, but I understand why it was there.

Lol everyone does, it’s not some big secret. It’s one of my biggest pet peeves with the albums, though it’s not really worth arguing as I guess it’s personal preference whether you like that “accent” or not.

I don't personally like the song, but it fits the concept. Em, now in the real world, has to come to grips with the fact that he hasn't rapped sober in years, and as such, his attempts to do so are awkward at first.

I do agree it fits the concept especially after Relapse and should have been the conclusion of the album. However it feels like nothing but a sulkfest when it could have been brutal self reflection in lieu of TES, except it’s more like Encore. I guess you could say Déjà vu is to TES as what this song is to Encore.

Are you really trying to argue this isn’t a soulless club track that completely disrupts the flow of the entire album tossed in simply to generate more revenue? If so than LOL

Falls flat on its face? How? How the FUCK does it fall flat on its face? Sans the detroit accent and high pitched voice, it sounds EXACTLY like the ridiculous shit Em used to come up with.

Because the lyrics are absolutely atrocious and you can tell it’s almost like he begging for approval from fans saying, “Look guys Slim Shady’s back” when the show ended 5 fucking minutes ago.

Didn't read all of it but I liked what I read!

-edit-

finished it ... good stuff though I think I probably enjoy Relapse more than you, lol.

[Snakebeast]

Hahaha, I was obviously parodying your exaggerated attempts at writing a thesis paper towards an album and claiming it a concept album just because it has a few songs which stay under given parameters the album has. I.e. being “serial killer” songs in an album where the main goddamn concept is about a serial killer. You’re argument can be applied towards any gangsta/Mafioso/etc album which have songs that stay within the given parameters of said albums but are nonlinear and follow no overarching plotline. You’re giving the chef a handjob for making something edible.

Glad you think of me as trying to write a thesis paper I might some time. Any advice you could give me? I feel like my thoughts are always too cluttered when I make long posts.

The thing is though, many rappers make a "gangster" type album, but no one has ever taken their whole career and music as a whole and twisted/exaggerated it as much as Em did on Relapse. Em managed to create a new character while still making it HIM. You can TELL that it's still him on the tracks, even though it sounds so alien and different from his normal shit.

I’m well aware of Tech N9ne and found the majority of his songs forgettable seeing as how he’s also a massive style over substance like Relapse, no matter how much you deny it the main appeal of Relapse to a fuckload of people and the reason why it has such a high replay value isn’t because of its brilliant concept (loll), it’s pretty damn generic for the most part. It’s cause of the astounding quantity of multies with a few exceptions (Same Song and Dance, My Mom, Déjà vu). And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with indulging in it plenty of fans (Amadeo, MikeNUFC) enjoy it for it what it is and aren’t trying to prop it up to more than what it really is. Hell Eminem himself would probably be shocked and dumbfounded that you would claim this is a concept album.

I agree that Tech tends to do style over substance, but sometimes, that just sounds better, and I think that's what he's going for. Of course, he also has songs with substance, but often makes it sound a bit awkward with his multis (go listen to Cult Leader, you might like that one, he rhymes less and focuses on the lyrics a bit more).

I honestly still think that, even if he failed at it, Em was trying to make something different. While it's not a linear storyline that's anywhere near easy to follow, it's fairly obvious that he was adhering to a certain concept on Relapse; a unique one. I found that interesting.

Oh hey finally we’re getting somewhere. And it absolutely is the main appeal of the album, it might not be his intention, and he might have been trying to make an album with songs that aren’t just “lol multies” but if you can’t see that’s why so many people love the damn album (as well as his insane flows in it) than I don’t know what to tell you.

Hey, the rhyming is not the main appeal for me. If I just wanted straight rhyming on generic horrorcore tracks I'd listen to Am I a Psycho on repeat. However, I will admit that I LOVE the flow on the album, as well as how everything sounds, despite the cringe-worthy rhyming.

I’m talking about when the lyrics are utter cowshit, and undermine the greatness of his skill and the potential said songs have. Like who the hell gives a shit about “the vacancy in his tummy” or where the hell does “Jason I’m so hungry line” come from? That said the second verse of Stay Wide Awake is one of the better serial killer verses in the album, try Medicine Ball or the second and third verses of Insane for a proper example of him just spewing nonsense. Also like I’ve said before the Accent ruins many songs in this album for me, I know why the hell he undertook said accent as he’s supposed to be roleplaying some sort of serial killer. And if that’s meant to make him more menacing than lol, even if I for some reason accept your argument that Relapse is a Concept album that still doesn’t mean he executed it well.

You're taking random parts of lines and putting them out of context. Here:

But they can't see what I can see, there's a vacancy in my tummy
It's making me play hide-and-seek, like Jason I'm so hungry

He's switching from thought to thought like the insane motherfucker he is. He goes from looking for victims to commenting on his stomach growling, back to looking for victims (like Jason Voorhees) and then back to his hunger.

Lol you acting like Relapse is some Meta-breakdown of his entire career is quite hilarious. The only times it really gets meta and self-referential is post Déjà vu, the majority of the album is just him having fun with a serial killer persona. Hey I guess Reasonable Doubt is a concept album because Jay-z gets meta and brooding recounting tales of his days as a hustler except you can see it as an exaggerated Scarface Homage=your argument.

The fuck man. Each song is clearly an exaggerated, serial killer like-representation of what he usually raps about. Do you want me to go into detail AGAIN?

Of course it is, my taste is impeccable.

I like you, man

Being a parody doesn’t give him a free pass to come up with shitty lines which he probably were thought were legitimately clever (see Recovery for what I mean). Also part of what made Eminem great was that he could mask serious topics with humor, have you learned nothing from SSLP? Hell he does that a fuckload of times in that album see Brain Damage, JDGAF, and As The World Turns. Brain Damage and As The World Turns are humorous recounts of his childhood yet it doesn’t a genius to see that underneath it, he was masking his depression with humor. I mean JDGAF, the cartoonish flippant side is his of way blocking out the fact that he hates the way things are turning in his life.

THAT'S THE POINT. This is the difference I'm trying to make you see. It's not SUPPOSED to be humourous. He's putting a serial killer twist on all the wacky shit he usually does. If Slim Shady actually existed, he wouldn't be giving the Statue of Liberty high fives while goofily waving around a chainsaw. He'd be a fucking serial rapist with a Jason mask (sorry, couldn't resist)

And this is what’s wrong with Insane, it tries to be a parody but I don’t find it funny or humorous at all and just find immature.

It's not meant to be a funny parody. He's trying to make you see just how creepy and weird Slim Shady in the real world would be.

If you did than you would have known better than to bait a dragon who is more than capable of defending himself and giving legitimate reasons as to why he thinks Relapse sucks, but you did and now like at the mess we’re in.

Mess? I'm actually having quite a bit of fun, here

Occam’s Razor, it’s called taking the simplest most logical explanation possible rather than stretching it and overcomplicating a simple issue more than it needs to be. I’m saying that Mariah Carey diss had no basis to be in the album other than it fits and why not, also this isn’t Eminem 10-12 years ago where it was obvious he was a meticulous perfectionist. This is Eminem well past that and the fact that he’s comfortable sacrificing substance for quantity shows that it’s not beneath him, also calm down it’s not like it’s exceedingly glaring filler.

I'm well aware of what it is. Even if I didn't, a simple google search would tell me. But you're underestimating Eminem. He always has a purpose for putting something on an album (bar Encore)

Lol, nowhere at all does it give off a vibe that he’s a serial killer or that it continues the theme. If anything it hurts your argument as it’s utterly jarring and disrupts the flow of the previous songs where he has a serial killer vibe, it’s just him being whimsical and flippant something that he’s had all the way up to even in the Eminem show. When he supposedly “matured” in that album, and so what if it’s a recount or it just being a flashback, not seeing how this helps your argument?

You do realize that serial killers don't just kill, right? And I doubt that Em grew up killing. It's Em the Serial Killer recounting the various encounters he had with women. In contrast, he goes into the next track, which talks about his CURRENT encounters with women.

You know by agreeing with this you’re unwittingly agreeing with my stance on what’s wrong with Relapse and what could have made it better, just FYI.

Dude, I think you should know that Relapse isn't my favourite album. It's not even my favourite Em album. Or my second favourite. Probably up with SSLP or under tho.

Are you really defending this jarring single and its place in the album with “It’s an Eminem album”? Like that somehow absolves him of the criteria going into creating a concept album? Hell Wu Tang had fucking singles that did not disrupt the flow of their albums (36 Chambers), don’t try and defend this with he need to appease the fans. I know it cuts your argument at the knees and throws it under speeding a freight train by me bringing it up, but c’mon man.

When Wu Tang somehow reaches the mainstream appeal that Em has, let me know This is Em's comeback album. I expect compromise, and I got a lot less than I expected.

Some try the whole goddamn song, and is your rebuttal to calling “some” of the lines wacky and out of place DEAL WITH IT?

Now you're exaggerating. It's Em's fucking gleeful rhyme fest about drugs and murder. A bunch of imagery mixed with rhyming. Some of the lines genuinely made me laugh. I see no "cringe-worthy" lines here. Em's not fucking Edgar Allen Poe.

Just like illmatic is an album about a guy recounting his life in the hood with each song being a different spin/interpretation to it. Just like Reasonable Doubt is an album mainly about Mafioso and each song has a different spin or interpretation to his life as a gangster. Just like every goddamn Gangsta rap album follows the same set of themes in the album and each song is just a different spin to that theme.

No, you don't understand. Em (on Relapse) was putting a serial killer twist on each of the songs, yes. But he's PARODYING HIMSELF. He's taking his music, the gripes people have with him, and his person as a whole and exaggerating it to the extreme, while at the same time looking at it from a serial killer's perspective.

And I don’t hate overt multies, I’m saying I don’t prefer an assload of multies when the content takes a backseat or you could tell that he wrote his verses around the damn rhymes. I’m saying I prefer subtle less manic verses with less overall multies but the rhymes feel like an indelible part of the song where you don’t even have to pay attention to them, get what I’m saying? For an phenomenal example listen of what I mean listen to the first verse of Dear God 2.0.

I feel like overt rhyming works a lot better for intense tracks (like Stay Wide Awake). It simply sounds a lot more "in your face", something I feel is necessary for such an intense track.

While it may be presumptuous of me and of course I know next to nothing about you, I do however could tell from this little argument that you like to prop up something to be more than it really is when there isn’t sufficient evidence for that.

I still honestly think that there is sufficient evidence.

And what the hell was I supposed to refute you, said “murderous interpretations” I call bollox. Must Be the Ganja is the definition of filler, it doesn’t fit with the overall theme or “concept” of the album. Not to mention when the hell has Eminem ever stuck in the token “weed” songs in his albums? Who does he look like Snoop Dogg? Yeah I know he’s had a few throwaway songs based around smoking weed, the second verse is what makes the song so good. And is a perfect example as to how he could have gone in Relapse without trying to constantly go Slim Shady without falling flat on his face. Also LOL at Old Time’s Sake.

Token weed songs? No. He's had token DRUG songs though. In fact, he had an entire SONG DEDICATED to drugs on MMLP. Old Time's Sake reminds me of What's the Difference.

Lol everyone does, it’s not some big secret. It’s one of my biggest pet peeves with the albums, though it’s not really worth arguing as I guess it’s personal preference whether you like that “accent” or not.

Well, at least we both completely agree that the accent is annoying as fuck. I wish he kept the style he had between Recovery and Relapse. You know, from the 2009 cypher and Westwood freestyles? AWESOME shit.

I do agree it fits the concept especially after Relapse and should have been the conclusion of the album. However it feels like nothing but a sulkfest when it could have been brutal self reflection in lieu of TES, except it’s more like Encore. I guess you could say Déjà vu is to TES as what this song is to Encore.

Wouldn't go that far, tbh. Deja Vu was Em sarcastically poking fun at himself while recounting his descent into drug use. Beautiful was a sober Em awkwardly trying to figure out how to rap again. And I feel like ending Relapse on Beautiful would've been fucking depressing as shit, bro.

Are you really trying to argue this isn’t a soulless club track that completely disrupts the flow of the entire album tossed in simply to generate more revenue? If so than LOL

Yes.

Because the lyrics are absolutely atrocious and you can tell it’s almost like he begging for approval from fans saying, “Look guys Slim Shady’s back” when the show ended 5 fucking minutes ago.

In WHAT way are the lyrics absolutely atrocious? Yes, in my opinion, Underground is like the stupider version of his later freestyles, but it STILL sounds FANTASTIC. His flow, rhyming, and delivery on point, and the barrage of random imagery sounds almost IDENTICAL to what he used to do.

[CrashBand]

Snake, reaching point is reaching.

[Snakebeast]

Snake, reaching point is reaching.

Not introducing any new points. Just clarifying a few. Besides, this is fun.

[cheeseburger]

No matter if its true or not, I like Snake's thought on Relapse.
No one knows what the true meaning of it was, so fucking fuck off yall. Both you fucking Amadadaoeo and Emenemenemenmenbasisisiesieses and fuckng worst of all them cocksockers fuckin AbramahabamskckalalickadickmadickisalickasonofabitchIsaac