If Encore had been Eminem's debut album...

[EminemInsider]

would he have been seen as, "the new Vanilla Ice?"

Can anyone honestly say he wouldn't have been seen as a complete joke if that had been the case?

So let's get off this, "Encore wasn't that baaaaad, it was still better than 98.349834% of all other rappers' albums. If another rapper put it out, it would've been considered a good album, it's just that it wasn't as good as Eminem's first 3" BS.

And you can substitute whatever you want for "Straight From the Lab" shit. Best case scenario is he'd be Asher Roth.

[Whitefox]

I got another question - What if Eminem was latino passive gay and his debut was Recovery?

[SoldierShady]

You know what? Encore WAS that bad. A complete and utter joke of an album.

[EminemBase]

You know what? Encore WAS that bad. A complete and utter joke of an album.

Naaaaaaaaaaaah...

It's like... the 6 stupid tracks which ruin it but... the majority are good-decent I'd say...

"Evil Deeds", "Never Enough", "Yellow Brick Road"... and "Mosh" are all great tracks to me...

Um, Hm, yeah well looking at the tracklist, that's where it falls apart. I mean, I actually find "Rain Man" enjoyable but it has no place on an Eminem SOLO album, something that's usually of such a high-standard. It's a ridiculous fuck-around track, same with "My 1st Single", "Big Weenie" and "Ass Like That", he just got very lazy and silly.

But some of the awfulness of 'Recovery' like his blatant yelling of dreadful lines like they're clever and the abysmal production and tinsel hooks... is actually more genuinely cringing than even the worst of 'Encore'... at least on the stupid shit on 'Encore', it still felt like he was a clever dude behind it, he was just acting totally riduclous and being lazy and complacent...

But as one critic put it, on 'Recovery', for the first time he sounds 'clumsy'. Never before 'Recovery' would Em utter some of the lines he did and think it's cool or witty lmao...

'Encore' actually has a much better foundation, music, artwork and a theme and concept than 'Recovery' too, but 'Recovery' is much better just due to the quality of the songs overall.

[Just Silver]

It would've been looked at differently because it'd have nothing to be compared to

[EminemBase]

It would've been looked at differently because it'd have nothing to be compared to

Exactly.

Many Em fans who hate 'Encore' can't seem to appreciate that point.

I think it's a bad album by the way, just due to the fact it's totally a mixed bag of themes... you can't be SO serious and then SO silly on the same album; his first three were blends not splits.

'Encore' is bipolar.

But as you rightly said, if you had nothing to compare it to, you'd never heard ANY Eminem before, you didn't know who this guy was or what he was about and this is the first album you hear... by the standards of what you would usually get on an album, the bland and generic viewpoints and lack of personality: even on 'Encore' Em confounds many standards and norms and quite well in some spots, and it's still creative... it's just a piece of shit compared to his first three...

A little example of this playing out in real life is with my dad's friend who is in his... 50s and is actually an incredibly picky, choosy old-rock / heavy rock kind of guy, he's not the type to like rap or be easily convinced... but he said he heard "Lose Yourself" and was blown away and then went and got 'Encore' and that it was the first and still only Em album he's heard, and he thinks the album is 'fucking brilliant'... it's not to an Em fan of course but I guess it's like... if nobody had ever heard of or seen Mike Tyson before... then they watch one of his fights past his prime or in a low spot... now even in those positions - Tyson is an incredibly unique and special fighter to watch, so if you'd never experienced him before and saw a shit Tyson, it would still be NEW to you, it would be A Tyson and you'd be like "wow, that guy is amazing" when in reality... he was utter dog shit compared to late 80s Mike and not all that great once he lost the key elements. But again, he's still so unique and brilliant at what he does and to someone who's never seen it, on any level, it's an experience.

So just apply that with Em... and I can see why he would find the album 'fucking brilliant'... he and most people are not used to people even being FUNNY in music for one thing, and we take for granted the amount of casual sarcasm (forget the goofy shit) throughout Em's music, even on 'Encore'; on "Evil Deeds" for example - the opening lines are darkly comic and self-deprecating... in most lyric sheets, these would be revealing stand-out lyrics... but for Eminem, they're standard lines of fodder and babble, an everyday occurrence, we're beyond used to it, so we want to be blown away on a whole new level. But remove our experience and expectations, and it's still an incredibly talented, funny lyricist creating conceptual music very well - to the average music listener, it's surprising.

[SajN]

Aaaand the same useless thread about Encore again... which we've had since 2005.

[King Lance]

Encore wasn't that baaaaad, it was still better than 98.349834% of all other rappers' albums. If another rapper put it out, it would've been considered a good album, it's just that it wasn't as good as Eminem's first 3

Encore is like a 3/10 or 4/10 in my book, a lot of fans think it's not that bad because it's an Eminem album.
If Wayne or Drake put it out, it would've been considered as the worst mainstream album of the decade

[EminemBase]

Aaaand the same useless thread about Encore again... which we've had since 2005.

Lmao I know, it's tedious.

I get sucked in to responding every time too... even though I basically say the same shit every time, I never feel like I get what I mean out of my head clear enough, which, in-case anybody was wondering - is why I sometimes write so much and keep digging at the same points lmao, because I don't feel satisfied that what I wrote sounds like what I feel I mean inside my head. Which is annoying. Ummmm, fuck I was gonna say something else then, forgot.

Oh yeah, was gonna just add, we're all on repeat; we go in circles yo.

Oh and one more thing - we're all on repeat; we go in circles yo. #EmBaseforPresidentFamALam

[EminemBase]

would he have been seen as, "the new Vanilla Ice?"

Can anyone honestly say he wouldn't have been seen as a complete joke if that had been the case?

So let's get off this, "Encore wasn't that baaaaad, it was still better than 98.349834% of all other rappers' albums. If another rapper put it out, it would've been considered a good album, it's just that it wasn't as good as Eminem's first 3" BS.

And you can substitute whatever you want for "Straight From the Lab" shit. Best case scenario is he'd be Asher Roth.

No he wouldn't have... it was shit and silly music for the most part... but you can still tell Em has a major grasp of melody and can rap. Vanilla Ice wasn't a musician or a rapper, he had no rhythm or flow, the guy plain out can't rap. Even on 'Encore', Em can rap.

The guy rapping "Mosh" wouldn't be seen as a joke.

The guy rapping "Just Lose It" would be seen as annoying, which Em was seen as in '99 anyway with "My Name Is", to most he was just a cheesy white guy rapping an annoying hook.

He got people's attention with his concepts ("Stan") and his anger ("The Way I Am"), and when I say attention I mean respect for him as an artist and not just an aimless provocateur.

'Encore' has some good rap, some average rap and some downright awful music... but you can still tell the fkn guy on the record is a talented artist, you can hear it in his writing, his self-deprecation on "Evil Deeds", the little self-jibes, his phrasing... even though he was at his worst, Em never would have been looked at as a joke, regardless of what album he came out with.

[sbolli1]

which brings me to an even better question: What would happen if Relapse had been Em's debut album...

[infinite2hts]

encore as a whole is not shitty, its just the middle part is so fucked-puke, rainman, big weenie, my first single. i detest them. everything else is objectively either decent or great. so the album is definitely overhated and above 5/10 if rated in general quality standard (and not compared to first 3 album standard)

[Atone]

Oh joy another encore thread, let's find a pipe, and a dead horse, come on everybody let's go beat it

[Sam.]

Not possible. Even if it was his 1st, we wouldn't be talking about it.

[EminemInsider]

Aaaand the same useless thread about Encore again... which we've had since 2005.

Point out a single thread in history that made the point that if Encore had been Eminem's debut album, he would've been considered a joke in the hip hop community and never gotten respect from real rappers the way he has as a result of his earlier work.

You're just lumping all "Encore sucks" threads together into one category, which isn't fair because you could lump just about any thread on here into a given category of Eminem threads we've seen.

How many "TES is awesome" threads do we have? How many, "Eminem has corny punchlines now" threads do we have?

No he wouldn't have... it was shit and silly music for the most part... but you can still tell Em has a major grasp of melody and can rap. Vanilla Ice wasn't a musician or a rapper, he had no rhythm or flow, the guy plain out can't rap. Even on 'Encore', Em can rap.

The guy rapping "Mosh" wouldn't be seen as a joke.

The guy rapping "Just Lose It" would be seen as annoying, which Em was seen as in '99 anyway with "My Name Is", to most he was just a cheesy white guy rapping an annoying hook.

He got people's attention with his concepts ("Stan") and his anger ("The Way I Am"), and when I say attention I mean respect for him as an artist and not just an aimless provocateur.

'Encore' has some good rap, some average rap and some downright awful music... but you can still tell the fkn guy on the record is a talented artist, you can hear it in his writing, his self-deprecation on "Evil Deeds", the little self-jibes, his phrasing... even though he was at his worst, Em never would have been looked at as a joke, regardless of what album he came out with.

Vanilla Ice's flow was no different than most mainstream rappers'. Nobody was saying, "that guy can't flow." They were saying, "novelty act cornball," and then he became despised in the hip hop community when he started lying about where he grew up.

Eminem got respect from rap fans right away because he brought the underground to the mainstream. His skill was undeniable. The people hating on My Name Is were generally the non-rap fans anyway. "Look at this white guy who thinks he's black, what a joker. Rap isn't music. Rap is crap."

If Eminem debuted with Just Lose It, he's "Vanilla Ice, only somehow even worse." And you know what would be said about the guy who made Mosh? "This cat can't flow. At all."