The Fingers Didn't Mean Much...

[EminemBase]

Em made a point of emphasizing pictures of him (like the double fingers) with his fingers up lately as if this symbolized some meaningful return of an overriding attitude...

But when you actually look at MMLP2; if anything he's tamer...

When you consider things like "Stronger Than I Was", "The Monster", "Headlights". I mean, that's fine and all, but then why act as if the opposite is true. In reality this is his most mature album yet.

[EminemBase]

Maybe it's a fuck you to everyone expecting something from him. I think it's a big fuck you because he really kind of went his own way this time.

-

Also in my head, I read the title in Jay-Z's flow on "Renegade" like: My fingers didn't mean much, only raising green up...lmao

C'mon fam, that's a reach and we know Em doesn't think like that lmao.

He simply died his hair blonde and finger'd the fuck out to imply the nostalgia / return to that vibe... but he can't help but try and balance albums or think there has to be a track about a variety of subjects with a variety of sounds now.

Where as the original MMLP... the very point was that it had no balance. That's why it was so forceful. And I'm the most disappointed he didn't recapture that forceful 'one mindedness' of it.

[Trimss]

Nah man. Eminem is cockier than ever. On Evil Twin and Rap God, he's basically saying fuck you to every other rapper, juggernaut or not, veteran or new school. He's saying he's the best rapper alive.

That's a fuck you to everyone else.

[EminemBase]

Maybe it's a fuck you to everyone expecting something from him. I think it's a big fuck you because he really kind of went his own way this time.

-

Also in my head, I read the title in Jay-Z's flow on "Renegade" like: My fingers didn't mean much, only raising green up...lmao

C'mon fam, that's a reach and we know Em doesn't think like that lmao.

He simply died his hair blonde and finger'd the fuck out to imply the nostalgia / return to that vibe... but he can't help but try and balance albums or think there has to be a track about a variety of subjects with a variety of sounds now.

Where as the original MMLP... the very point was that it had no balance. That's why it was so forceful. And I'm the most disappointed he didn't recapture that forceful 'one mindedness' of it.

I was just kidding. Dunno man, publicity stunt

I don't think it was a publicity stunt or intentionally false artistry by Em...

I just think he has a more divisive artistic attention span than ever.

In his prime, he got a concept and a theme and ran start to finish with it. Now he gets the concept and theme but then goes 'eh, what if they don't like... um, leme put this track... oh and what if, we need this kind of track' and just can't seem to commit to a single vision now.

[_Hawk_]

He is still as raw as ever. Stronger than I was is raw emotion, rather like the equivalent of runaway (it need a fucking guitar solo or some emotional instrumental though).

The middle fingers are just his attitude. That's it. And he goes all out on this record. But you cannot deny the truth, and thus they work the opposite way: aiming at those who pigeon hole him into being an arsehole, but complain when he is one. He pulls off the emotional tracks very well (bar the obvious Interscope creations), whilst remaining mature.

It is his 40 year old self revisiting the emotional output he created in 2000, but obviously with his contemporary spin.

Eminem has always ensure his albums were balanced. He said it himself: you will never get an 808 album from him. He will never stick to a mood and go along with it. That's why all his albums have emotional tracks, followed by more lively ones. He gets you down and perks you up.

If anything, Em NEEDS to make an album where the theme remains consistent.
I'd love to hear some dark shit that just depresses me and puts me in a mood. Something consistent and different than his usual formula.

[Kill You]

EmBase, you wanted strong concepts and that's what he has given you.

[Jimmy Conway]

He called for us to rape our Mothers and kill our parents.

He was murdered on the album.

He has the word faggot scattered around on the album


He's intense, aggressive and shocking a lot on the album.

It's not him that's tame, it's people that is desensitized. It's 2013. If this album came out in 2000 it would have been a bigger deal.

These days everyone is cynical, sarcastic.

We have too much information. It's hard for someone to go from seeing some chopped into pieces on 4chan to be shocked by something someone said in a song.

[minwager]

He is still as raw as ever. Stronger than I was is raw emotion, rather like the equivalent of runaway (it need a fucking guitar solo or some emotional instrumental though).

The middle fingers are just his attitude. That's it. And he goes all out on this record. But you cannot deny the truth, and thus they work the opposite way: aiming at those who pigeon hole him into being an arsehole, but complain when he is one. He pulls off the emotional tracks very well (bar the obvious Interscope creations), whilst remaining mature.

It is his 40 year old self revisiting the emotional output he created in 2000, but obviously with his contemporary spin.

Eminem has always ensure his albums were balanced. He said it himself: you will never get an 808 album from him. He will never stick to a mood and go along with it. That's why all his albums have emotional tracks, followed by more lively ones. He gets you down and perks you up.

If anything, Em NEEDS to make an album where the theme remains consistent.
I'd love to hear some dark shit that just depresses me and puts me in a mood. Something consistent and different than his usual formula.

Yeah, that's the thing with him taking so long making these albums, he feels the need to try to add a little bit of everything in them and it just gives the albums less consistency. I wish he'd take less time to put out a project so he wouldn't feel like he has to make some grand thing with songs that appeal to everyone. I feel this album has been real consistent though despite a few tracks.

[_Hawk_]

I am very surprised Mr Rubin didn't reduce some of the tracks. Ass-hole could have had one less verse (or three verses which stayed better to the topic); Survival can go; the Monster could have had darker production etc

[momentsgolden]

The fuck you fingers did not mean much. So did the Illuminati symbolism they seemed to imply. So did the blonde hair. So is Dr Dre as an executive producer. The album artwork of the house.

In fact, i am tempted to say... even the name Marshall Mathers LP 2 did not mean much to me. This album's music is very good. Extremely good. I love it. But i still feel all the marketing techniques above and a few other ones (like leaking the nightmares tease by Royce, "straight rapping" by Budden, "Slim Shady" by Joel Ortiz were so deceptive they reduced the luster of this album.

I might be the only one that feels this, but if he had just made this album and then let the "nostalgia" element come naturally it would have been even better received rather than spoiling that surprise by almost FORCING you to be nostalgic. Corny title, but Marshall Mathers Back to the Future would have been the sort of thing i would have really loved.

What i feel means less even more is the black and white imagery. This is Eminem's most colourful project yet!! There are so many colours, textures and tones. Its layers upon layers of goodies. Having a colourful Eminem would have been fun. Dress him up as a clown. Impersonate Yoda. Mimic the Radioactive cover. Something just... more impactful. This album is not minimalist and the black and white gives a false impression.

[EminemBase]

The fuck you fingers did not mean much. So did the Illuminati symbolism they seemed to imply. So did the blonde hair. So is Dr Dre as an executive producer. The album artwork of the house.

In fact, i am tempted to say... even the name Marshall Mathers LP 2 did not mean much to me. This album's music is very good. Extremely good. I love it. But i still feel all the marketing techniques above and a few other ones (like leaking the nightmares tease by Royce, "straight rapping" by Budden, "Slim Shady" by Joel Ortiz were so deceptive they reduced the luster of this album.

I might be the only one that feels this, but if he had just made this album and then let the "nostalgia" element come naturally it would have been even better received rather than spoiling that surprise by almost FORCING you to be nostalgic. Corny title, but Marshall Mathers Back to the Future would have been the sort of thing i would have really loved.

What i feel means less even more is the black and white imagery. This is Eminem's most colourful project yet!! There are so many colours, textures and tones. Its layers upon layers of goodies. Having a colourful Eminem would have been fun. Dress him up as a clown. Impersonate Yoda. Mimic the Radioactive cover. Something just... more impactful. This album is not minimalist and the black and white gives a false impression.

Some great and interesting points...

Particularly with the contrast of the music vs. the imagery and marketing...

The album is almost like a... modern play and as you say - there's an immense amount of colour and textures, which is totally contrary to an old worn out house. Then you have this black and red minimalist theme which conflicts with both the music AND the cover...

It's like there's one consistent theme and direction in the mix somewhere but they just ended up going in multiple directions with every single aspect.

[EminemBase]

He called for us to rape our Mothers and kill our parents.

He was murdered on the album.

He has the word faggot scattered around on the album


He's intense, aggressive and shocking a lot on the album.

It's not him that's tame, it's people that is desensitized. It's 2013. If this album came out in 2000 it would have been a bigger deal.

These days everyone is cynical, sarcastic.

We have too much information. It's hard for someone to go from seeing some chopped into pieces on 4chan to be shocked by something someone said in a song.

But there's too many breaks of character, which is what I mean.

To somberly apologize to his mother... it was heartfelt and mature and just emphasizes the 'act' of any level of shock of character...

There isn't a single moment of this kind of character break on MMLP1. Which is why people were confused as to whether he was joking or not; he gave plenty of winks to camera but it's equivalent to him making a self-serious apologetic track to people within MMLP1.

I mean, he has the "Stan" verse, which is his biggest acknowledgement of self but that's it.

[_Hawk_]

What was Em going to do? Kill his mum and use that as a metaphor for his suppressed love?

He has no reason to replicate shock tactics. And the key here is the fact that the original MMLP had no real shock tactics on the serious tracks. Kim was made in a fit of rage, just as much as Headlights was written when Em realised his true feelings towards his mother.

Just because one is not violent does not mean the emotions are in any way dissimilar.

You are comparing the two albums far too much.
Eminem explains in Bad Guy that naming this album the MMLP2 is more than just a commercial action. He is going back into that headspace and channeling his current feelings much in the same way as he did back then.

Consequently the juxtaposition of his emotions shows an evolution, rather than the devolution you seem to wish he had journeyed with.

The best example of this on the album is how Evil Twin juxtaposes Headlights. Debbie was instrumental to creating Eminem, and he and his Evil Twin are one and the same. They have both forgiven her, but it doesn't change his character just because he appears to forgive her. He still has nasty thoughts. He will still rip other rappers to shreds.

[EminemBase]

^ It's not about shock tactics. That's tedious.

But just think a little harder on how to have that underlying attitude vs. a bit of everything again.

[momentsgolden]

you know, Eminem was making this music WITHOUT the MMLP2 title to it. Paul and (presumably) Royce and Porter suggested the name.

What that means is we can never "compare the albums too much" because for 3 months after the title was announced that is all we have been forced to do. The promotion, the name, the visuals, everything is SCREAMING comparison so loudly it is annoying.

I actually love the album alot. So, i am not asking him to shock me in a lyrical sense. I am just saying the WHOLE marketing of the album was either Label pressure/ Lazy on his part/ a reason he doesnt wanna say. Have you seen his rolling stone interview? He MADE music to live up to the name but creatively, he was already in that headspace.

I dont know man. I just get very frustrated. I like Eminem too much. It frustrates me that alot of people had a diminished return in enjoying the music because of the marketing when it should have been the other way round. This album should be a classic and standalone like that. This is like Dre releasing Detox man You can never win. But with Dre, he is FORCED to release it as detox as that is the ONLY thing we want from him. Eminem ddnt NEED to name it this and i just... i just dont see how or why he had to create all that pressure from nothing except... and i hate to say it coz i dont want to believe it... but sales