Lol at mmlp2 being better than MBDTF

[1LynguisticMind]

mmlp 2 is not touching MBDTF lol. And I know that gkmc is one of the best albums released in the 2010's but it's not touching MBDTF either. Now I'll level with you, it isn't my favorite album, I think the replay value could be better (but this is because most of the songs were released before its release). Nonetheless, it has deserved every ounce of praise it has received. Why?

1. One of the best produced hip-hop albums of all time. And this isn't an exaggeration.
- Incorporates elements of several dramas that extend beyond hip-hop, such as classic rock, classical (in general), alternative rock, prog rock, pop, soul (this isn't unique for Kanye), and hell, you could probably rationalize a bunch more things.
- At no point does it feel typical or lazy. There are too many examples to point out. One song samples Bon Iver, another has a piano/guitar solo between two verses in a soul song, another is a completely original beat built that trumpets with a ton of different artists.

2. Lyricism and guest appearances.
- Not necessarily Kanye, although this is probably his third best effort after CD and LR, and not far behind on some songs.
- But guests are used great. John Legend is perfect, Rick Ross is perfect, Raekwon is perfect, even Cyhi on So Appalled isn't as appalling as everyone says. Jay-Z and Nicki Minaj have great spots on Monster. But even if you don't like everyone's verses, you can probably still see that they were well placed. While this does have many guest features, it is still a Kanye album. They are well organized in the scheme of the album and each bring something.

3. Thematic/Artistic elements
- This is maybe the deepest album Kanye will ever put out, and I know it sounds cliche to just say that straight up, but its true. The entire time he goes up and down and up and down emotionally, from triumph on Gorgeous to exile on All of the Lights to dismay and melancholy on Lost in the World. From fucking strippers on one song to wishing for the same devil back in his life on another. This album is thematically fucking out of its mind, but it makes sense because Kanye is Kanye, so therefore all this shit is believable when viewed through the lens of all we know about him.
- All the art that accompanies this shit, and you know, the fucking movie - when the hell has that been done before? He shot a short film, which, despite some retarded lines, is nonetheless beautiful and tells a story which makes sense when, again, looking at him as a person.

4. Critical Acclaim
- You may not give a shit what Pitchfork says or what the overall Metacritic is, but a lot of people do. 10.0 on Pitchfork, first one since WIlco in 2002. 94/95 (seen both) on Metacritic, tied with Outkast's Stakonia as the greatest hip-hop album ever. Number one on countless end of the year lists. Rap Album of the Year, and widespread controversy over it not being nominated for Album of the Year. And these folks know more about music than you do, whether you'd like to admit it or not.

5. Its history
- Kanye gets essentially exiled from the country, is at arguably the darkest moment in his life, comes back to Hawaii in the new year, starts working on the album around February, and releases what many call a masterpiece. That's amazing.


So, I'm sorry to seem arrogant about it, but if you think this masterpiece is overrated, you are just a fucking moron and you should eat your own ass.

[yezz1r]

Am I the only one who didn't know this?

[Mr Change]

Am I the only one who didn't know this?

Wow, learn something new every day.

[BILI]

Am I the only one who didn't know this?

Wow

[fifflaren]

tldr but I agree

[Raul]

Oh, look, another mononym.

[4Corners]

A supposed head defending Kanye.

Hip Hop was built on a simple beat, with the WORDS and RHYMES being the most important. Yeah Kanye threw that out the window and changed the game, in a bad way.

Kanye is the most overrated emcee of all time that gets respect from others in the game. On this album, it was his great musically, hands down. Kanye never makes the same album twice, just like Em. I give him props for that.

But lyrically the album is sub par and average as usual for his albums. Oh and metacritic is saying given the good reviews for MMLP2 right now, that it's on the same level as MMLP and TES, and it's real dope but it's not. So metacritic and critics is a bad argument, Kanye could make an album saying George Bush hates black people, I fuck Kardashian in the ass while she calls me a god, nigga.....and the album would get a 70 something on metacritic.

It's all a matter of taste. You're Kanye's bottom bitch, so of course you're going to love arguably his greatest album. But for others, not so much.

[_Hawk_]

I agree.
But as a rap album I still think it is below MMLP when viewed through the criteria that underpin rap.
It is better in a broader field, but the features that make it so good lose their touch when you really focus on the lyricism, flows and other technicalities that hip hop heads route for.

It is a fantastic album. A masterpiece no doubt.
Could Eminem make one?
Yes. He has it in him. But he needs guidance, just as Kanye had with this album. In the same way the Late Registration taught Kanye how to project his music into more soulful sounds, MMLP2 has given Em the artistic exploration to begin exploring himself.

[Rattle1]

mbdtf is overrated but at the same time, it's the best album of the past 5 years

[4Corners]

Kanye fans would have you believe lyricism means NOTHING about a rap album. Lyricism is the very essence of a rap album. it's the very thing every fucking classic rap album has. No Kanye album has above average lyricism.

[Accor]

The best verse on the whole album was by nicki minaj.

Lyrically it is on encore level, the production is what made the album so good.

uhg

[trentimus]

Great musical effort.. Maybe one of the best ever.. But he's not a better rapper and almost impossible to compare to Em

MBDTF is better though.

[EminemBase]

I'm not saying it's better...

But just literally communicating my experience:

When I first listened to MMLP2, it felt like a very surprising musical ride. I was constantly like 'ooh, wtf, that's good' and vibing like fuck to the music and the sounds... and I'm not really that in to production / thought I wasn't until I heard how bad Recovery was...

But, as grand as 'Dark Fantasy' is... I honestly didn't get that same feel. I remember thinking 'this is cool as shit', and the album is a ride, but I didn't get this 'wow factor' as I heard it.

MBDTF is seriously overrated too, maybe not production-wise but conceptually it is, and Graduation is on the whole is a more enjoyable album.

Lyrically there's no question MMLP2 is better... as for production... I dunno. But I had more fun listening to MMLP2 than I did Dark Fantasy, although Dark Fantasy is probably a more cohesive and well put together musical ride.

There's no fucking question that MMLP1 is leagues above Dark Fantasy though. Maybe not production wise, but in terms of an artistic concept, what it represents - the importance and point of existing as a piece of art (ingeniously witty statement on censorship vs. a bizarre metaphor narrative about feeling outkasted due to backlash from cutting somebody off at an awards show LMAO).

[Iris2]

I'm not going to judge albums the way rap fans do. It's pretty freaking stupid. But, if you think that MBDTF is not flawed, you're wrong. I appreciate it. It's instrumentally a very fine album.

So, don't judge MMLP2 right off the bat. It's a very good stream of consciousness album with disjointed but articulate emotions. The lyrics and the instaneous lyrical and musical atmosphere amount to much more than any album full of Still Dre beats and Lil Wayne lyrics. It has its flaws, the awkward flow and the obvious fillers but the album weighs far more than people are preceiving it to be. Trust me, when people begin to understand Eminem, they'll understand the brilliance of the album. People still look at Eminem as a shock value mega-rhymer ignoring every aspect of humanity revealed in his raps. Eminem is only a shock value rapper as much as Degas is a mysogynistic painter.

[LIL_B]

nope.