Jay-Z Decoded

[Wreck]

He mentioned a line from Eminem to make a point in one of the chapters

A normal life is boring but superstardom's close to post mortem?

Yeah that was the one. Did you read it or was that just a good guess?

[Hiphopdane]

He mentioned a line from Eminem to make a point in one of the chapters

A normal life is boring but superstardom's close to post mortem?

Yeah that was the one. Did you read it or was that just a good guess?

I finished reading the book a few weeks ago I was just worried that I had missed something.

[Wreck]

I finished reading the book a few weeks ago I was just worried that I had missed something.

Oh ok, did you like it? I was reading it on the PDF Adobe Reader and I read little parts. Was their any other mentions of Em that you could think of?

[Hiphopdane]

I finished reading the book a few weeks ago I was just worried that I had missed something.

Oh ok, did you like it? I was reading it on the PDF Adobe Reader and I read little parts. Was their any other mentions of Em that you could think of?

It's a really good book. Maybe a little too short but still worth the money.

He says his Renegade verses are absolutely fucking brilliant on page 115.

[Wreck]

I finished reading the book a few weeks ago I was just worried that I had missed something.

Oh ok, did you like it? I was reading it on the PDF Adobe Reader and I read little parts. Was their any other mentions of Em that you could think of?

It's a really good book. Maybe a little too short but still worth the money.

He says his Renegade verses are absolutely fucking brilliant on page 115.

That's Jay. Earth to Jay Eminem still murdered you.

Jay also said even after the beef, that he thought he won the Nas beef & that Takeover he thought was better then Ether.

Wrong again .

[Wreck]

Here you go guys. From Decoded

Hip-hop gave a generation a common ground that didn't require either race to lose anything; everyone
gained. Black people never had to debase themselves in hip-hop. A lot have, but it was never obligatory. In fact, the most successful albums from black artists have come from artists who are among the most culturally and politically conscious, whether it’s Lauryn and the Fugees or Outkast or Tupac or Public Enemy. And the white acts who were the biggest—Eminem, and the Beasties, for example—largely came with respect for the culture and its roots. Rap has been a path between cultures in the best tradition of popular music.

Good point by Jay there ^ .

[ThomasJ]

That's Jay. Earth to Jay Eminem still murdered you.

Jay also said even after the beef, that he thought he won the Nas beef & that Takeover he thought was better then Ether.

Wrong again .

So Jay said Em's verses on Renegade are fucking brilliant, & then you say that.
That doesn't make sense.

And FYI, Em didn't MURDER Jay.
It's debatable who had the better verses.

PS: The Takeover goes hard.

[Wreck]

That's Jay. Earth to Jay Eminem still murdered you.

Jay also said even after the beef, that he thought he won the Nas beef & that Takeover he thought was better then Ether.

Wrong again .

So Jay said Em's verses on Renegade are fucking brilliant, & then you say that.
That doesn't make sense.

And FYI, Em didn't MURDER Jay.
It's debatable who had the better verses.

PS: The Takeover goes hard.

No my point was that Jay is very confident in himself. So my point does make sense. I see what you thought I meant, but I know that he co-signed Em's verses on Renegade. Honestly who didn't like Em's verses? And Em did murder Jay, ask Nas.

Takeover I like, but I prefer Ether. Both are a matter of opinion, no big deal.

[ThomasJ]

That's Jay. Earth to Jay Eminem still murdered you.

Jay also said even after the beef, that he thought he won the Nas beef & that Takeover he thought was better then Ether.

Wrong again .

So Jay said Em's verses on Renegade are fucking brilliant, & then you say that.
That doesn't make sense.

And FYI, Em didn't MURDER Jay.
It's debatable who had the better verses.

PS: The Takeover goes hard.

No my point was that Jay is very confident in himself. So my point does make sense. I see what you thought I meant, but I know that he co-signed Em's verses on Renegade. Honestly who didn't like Em's verses? And Em did murder Jay, ask Nas.

Takeover I like, but I prefer Ether. Both are a matter of opinion, no big deal.

Em murdered Royce on Renegade.
To say Em murdered Jay, that would mean Jay's verses were the same quality as Royce's.
That's LAUGHABLE.

[Wreck]

Em murdered Royce on Renegade.
To say Em murdered Jay, that would mean Jay's verses were the same quality as Royce's.
That's LAUGHABLE.

No dude, do you remember what Nas said on Ether? Eminem murdered you on your own shit. That's what I'm referring to/talking about. He murdered him in the sense that he came on Jay's song, and album, and to add, he was the only feature on the album, and he had better verses then him. Not by a lot, but he still did. So yes you are right, but wrong.

And about Royce, nah I liked Royce's verse. Jay's verses were better then Royce's yeah.

[dead prez]

Honestly the whole Eminem murdered you own your own shit is only brought up by Eminem or Nas stans to downplay Jay z, did you guys forget "oochie wally's verse better than yours", and just so you know the beat was originally Em's. And Eminem didn't "murder" Jay z, murdering would be Ghostface on Tony Montana, Rakim on I'll Buss em u punish em, Nas on B-ez, basically songs where the guests make the other artists look like a piece of shit.

Eminem's guest spot on Renegade is on the same level as Nas' Verbal Intercorse, Nas' verse on Eye for an Eye, etc. basically verses which are arguably the best verse on the song, but doesn't make the other verses look worthless.

Honestly it's debatable which verse is better Eminem's sounds better at face value with multies and alliteration, but Jay has him on metaphors and double entendres, it'd be like putting Pun and Lupe on the same track, most would probably argue that Pun would murk Lupe.

[stillmatic]

Eminem did murder Jay on Renegade, it's not just some conspiracy against Jay by Eminem stans. Jay-Z has enough star power to counter such an assault, he has radio stations that run his music above anyone elses no matter how much better their records are than Jay's, so it's not as if it's a heavyweight vs a welterweight in competition here. In fact, there's two types of people who deny this; firstly there's people who genuinely believe that Jay had the better verse and that's fine, but there's not that many of them out there; and secondly there's people who only discuss points that aren't really related to the song - such as complaining about Eminem's fans, or his skin colour, or his popularity, or Nas who really has nothing to do with Renegade.

Secondly, Jay can say what he wants, but the whole world knows that Nas destroyed him on Ether. Ether was a roast of Jay's entire life, and I have no doubts Jay would have been surprised about how much Nas knew (such as the Jaz-0 and Jadakiss info), which hurt Jay. You know someones lost when they try and come back and go below the belt (Jay with Nas baby momma, just like say Ja Rule talking about Kim/Hailie). Not to mention everything Memphis Bleek and Beanie talking about how they practically lost, this great piece of audio is proof of Jay's loss. He can deny it, but at the time he knew it.

[NicoleEM]

Did he say something about Eminem?

Yeah a bunch of times.

Here's the link to read the book everybody. Your welcome.

http://rapidshare.com/#!download|824tl3 ... .zip|96638

He mentioned a line from Eminem to make a point in one of the chapters, he talked about how when Em was at the peak of his success around TES he still had to wear a bullet vest (Em did). This is when they hooked up to do Moment Of Clarity, for the Black Album. He also mentioned a few times how successful Em was, and measuring himself up to that level of success. He also talked about sales. How when him and 50 were beefing, how Em, G-Unit's first album, and Jay's album all did well sales and reception wise.

Thank you
About sales going good when they were beefing...that kind of says that beef does sell records better lol.

[dead prez]

Eminem did murder Jay on Renegade, it's not just some conspiracy against Jay by Eminem stans. Jay-Z has enough star power to counter such an assault, he has radio stations that run his music above anyone elses no matter how much better their records are than Jay's

How does that help him at all?

, so it's not as if it's a heavyweight vs a welterweight in competition here. In fact, there's two types of people who deny this; firstly there's people who genuinely believe that Jay had the better verse

Well I'm not under that, I do objectively believe Eminem got Jay z on Renegade but he didn't "murder' him on Renegade, and I can see someone liking Jay's verse better without being a stan or a hater.

and that's fine, but there's not that many of them out there;

Does it matter?

and secondly there's people who only discuss points that aren't really related to the song - such as complaining about Eminem's fans, or his skin colour, or his popularity, or Nas who really has nothing to do with Renegade.

Thankfully I don't fall under that either, if you want me to debate why I think Jay z's verse wasn't completely far behind Eminem than I'll do it. And believe it or not people love to feed off of Nas' quote while completely ignoring Nas getting murdered by his bodyguard and it's not like getting murked by Eminem isn't any shame (well Eminem at that time anyway).

Secondly, Jay can say what he wants, but the whole world knows that Nas destroyed him on Ether.

Go on I'm listening

Ether was a roast of Jay's entire life, and I have no doubts Jay would have been surprised about how much Nas knew (such as the Jaz-0 and Jadakiss info), which hurt Jay.

Ether was nothing but kindergarten insults about his looks, and other superficial shit. I mean the whole first verse is nothing but him whining about how he's still relevant. The second verse is on some emo shit I mean " I've been fucked over, left for dead, dissed and forgotten
Luck ran out, they hoped that I'd be gone, stiff and rotten
Y'all just piss on me, shit on me, spit on my grave (uh)
Talk about me, laugh behind my back but in my face
Y'all some "well wishers", friendly acting, envy hiding snakes
With your hands out for my money, man, how much can I take", really?

The third verse he kicked it up a notch but it still nothing but kindergarten insults and some lies.

Takeover is a much better diss track, but I'd rather listen to Ether as a song.

First verse he opens it up nice and gets the listener anticipating for the disses.

Second verse he dismantles Prodigy (who was more relevant than Nas at the time)

Nas he destroys, whom he accuses of being a model, check.
Nas switching up from Nasty Nas to Esco's trash, check.
Nas falling off horribly since illmatic, check (well IWW was dope0
Nas' bodyguard outshining him on a song, check (worse than being outshined by Em that's for sure)
Nas being a fake thug, he is the definition of a studio gangsta.
Jay z showing Nas his first tech with large professer, check
Nas got ripped off by not getting money off Jay-z sampling his voice, basically making him look like a tool.
Nas not dropping one hot album since illmatic which was a long ass time ago, and wasn't relevant at the time, check.
And he already made allusions to fucking Nas' baby momma in Takeover, in the last few lines.

Would you look at that, all in one verse he trashed Nas.

You know someones lost when they try and come back and go below the belt (Jay with Nas baby momma, just like say Ja Rule talking about Kim/Hailie).

There are no rule in dissing, and I don't see anyone getting at Pac' diss for supposedly fucking Biggie's wife.

Not to mention everything Memphis Bleek and Beanie talking about how they practically lost, this great piece of audio is proof of Jay's loss. He can deny it, but at the time he knew it.

[/quote]
And?

[stillmatic]

What's there to discuss?

Jay-Z had the biggest station in NY backing his every move. Ether was not played on Hot 97, it was quietly banned, whereas Takeover was played every second song. That's what I meant in terms of having a huge backing of media channels. It's also hilarious that on the big hot 97 poll, it was Nas who went on to win, because real NY niggas knew what it was about, they didn't need it shoved down their throat, they knew what was the better track.

I can't believe you're saying Ether was full of kindergarten insults, when all Takeover really was Jay dissing Prodigy about his height, his nickname and the big focus was on how Prodigy was a dancer when he was...........8 years old. Wow that's real grown man b.i. there.

Then the Nas diss on Takeover was about Nas' raps were not true (the most general diss - you LIE about what you do etc. etc.) and then whilst we're talking about kindergarten insults, someone should perhaps teach Jay some kindergarten maths considering he couldn't even calculate the Nas classic albums per decade analysis properly.

Ether on the other hand is a complete analysis of Jay's career and how much of a fake he really is. Everything Jay said about Nas was thrown right back at him. From biting off KRS, Biggie, Jaz etc. to begging Jadakiss for forgiveness, to talking about Brooklyn over Queens when Queens' own Russ ran Def Jam and was Jay's boss, to getting torn to shreds by Eminem on his supposed best album ever, to selling out completely, to begging Nas for records, to talking about Nas in his songs, to getting Nas' numbers when he was in trouble etc. I could go on for days, there's that much material that just 'ethers' Jay. It's almost embarrassing.

At the end of the day, there's 5 reasons as to why it's so blatant that Nas destroyed Jay.

1- Ether has since become apart of the Hip Hop dictionary.

2 - Jay's going below the belt and bringing Carmen into it. Talking about Pac' and his diss of Biggie's wife, that was COMPLETELY different. Simply because Pac' thought they shot him, it was already personal, not to mention that Jay saw what happened to Pac and Biggie. Here we had a man who clearly lost so he had to make it personal. Beef has rules, and family should never be included.

3- Hot 97 poll where Nas won, on Jay's own station.

4 - That radio interview after Ether just came out where Jay's about to cry. Then there's Memphis Bleek saying the day Ether dropped was a sad day for the Roc, not to mention other Roc members saying the same.

5 - Jay saying he lost. What else should there be to discuss? He himself said he lost.

Let me say something, this didn't happen in Atlanta or Houston or anywhere in the Midwest, or even LA, this happened in the mecca of hip hop, New York. Down there, when it comes to this stuff we have history where we don't give a shit about popularity or sales or appeal when it comes to battle. That's why Jay at the time could sell 5 million, and still lose this. Because the genuine hip hop heads decided who won, and Nas was never ever going to lose this.