Kanye West Vs Tupac

[Trimss]

It's simple, if you don't want to hear straight hip hop spitting rap or good emcees you don't listen to Kanye West. If you want GOOD sounding music with normal lyrics, then he's all for you. Some guy may consider that spitting kind of hip hop as real hip hop since it was started that way, backpacking cyphering shit, some may prefer good sounding music. Nothing wrong with BOTH of them, so y'all gotta stop flaming each other if someone says "Imo crooked I > kanye west"

And NO, fuck NO Kanye West isn't an amazing lyricist. Hell, any GOOD member is better than him. He's just more creative, which is why he's as famous as he is now. Kanye West would've NEVER got recognized if he started rapping before he produced. That's a fact you just can't deny.

/Thread/Thread/Thread boii

Doesn't change the fact he's in my top 5.

btw Yela > Kanye boi

[King Lance]

It's simple, if you don't want to hear straight hip hop spitting rap or good emcees you don't listen to Kanye West. If you want GOOD sounding music with normal lyrics, then he's all for you. Some guy may consider that spitting kind of hip hop as real hip hop since it was started that way, backpacking cyphering shit, some may prefer good sounding music. Nothing wrong with BOTH of them, so y'all gotta stop flaming each other if someone says "Imo crooked I > kanye west"

And NO, fuck NO Kanye West isn't an amazing lyricist. Hell, any GOOD member is better than him. He's just more creative, which is why he's as famous as he is now. Kanye West would've NEVER got recognized if he started rapping before he produced. That's a fact you just can't deny.

/Thread/Thread/Thread boii

Doesn't change the fact he's in my top 5.

btw Yela > Kanye boi

he's a ok rapper, but a good musician and artist

[Trimss]

California Love is a sick as fuck song y'all crazy

[Accor]

I just gave you an example not 20 lines about EM...so disregard EM...this is about PAC.

And I gave you an example as a response to your example, sounds like a fair deal eh?

That`s ok name, you got your opinion. That`s cool. You don`t care about the whole "he's done a lot to the game", "his legacy"...but you care about Kanye`s great producing and his "artistic" approach or whatever you Kanye fans always talk about.

It's not even related to Kanye West's artistic vision right now, it's about the OP's comparison and how I view Kanye as the much superior rapper, artist, musician in the 2Pac vs. Kanye comparison.

It`s stupid to say that you don`t care about what Pac did, but Kanye, his contribution is important

His contribution? When I'm making something of my own, such as making a comparison, or making a top 10 list, for example. I remove that thing, completely, from my head, simply because it has nothing to do with the current subject. Why would I care if LL Cool J influenced more rappers than J. Cole if I'm comparing them based on their music? It's completely irrelevant.

Also, of course 2Pac commercialized west coast Hip Hop and may have introduced the genre to more people, but quit acting as if Hip Hop desperately needed 2Pac to survive. There was great Hip Hop, before 2Pac came along, or at the same time as him and wasn't influenced by him. Such as The Roots, Outkast, Rakim, Nas, Biggie, etc. The only thing Pac's nonexistence would cause is somebody else taking his place, there were lots and lots of pioneers already and Pac didn't change things hugely. He influenced a few people, so did every other good rapper who stayed in the same long enough. Matter of fact, if 2Pac wasn't dead, he's be as irrelevant as Ice Cube right now, making a few movie roles and such.

But of course, you have these Hip Hop "elitists" with bias towards every old artist that symbolizes "pure" Hip Hop, "raw" Hip Hop, "same old boring" Hip Hop, who will chant everybody used to do or mimmicks the 90s style, and brush off every new, fresh-sounding lyricists for the silliest excuses.

Out on bail fresh outta jail, California dreamin
Soon as I stepped on the scene, I'm hearin hoochies screamin
Fiendin for money and alcohol
The life of a west side playa where cowards die and it's all ball
Only in Cali where we riot not rally to live and die
In L.A. we wearin Chucks not Ballies (that's right)
Dressed in Locs and khaki suits and ride is what we do
Flossin but have caution we collide with other crews
Famous cause we program worldwide
Let'em recognize from Long Beach to Rosecrans
Bumpin and grindin like a slow jam, it's west side
So you know the row won't bow down to no man
Say what you say
But give me that bomb beat from Dre
Let me serenade the streets of L.A.
From Oakland to Sacktown
The Bay Area and back down
Cali is where they put they mack down
Give me love!

If that verse was spat by Kanye West, most people would brush this off as a lame, generic effort with no creativity, same old same old content. "Is he making the same song he always does?".

It was all good just a week ago
***** feel theyselves and then Watch The Throne drop
***** kill themselves
What ***** gon do Hov?
This a new crack on a new stove
I'm in the two-door, true that
***** tellin' me "You back"
Like a ***** ever left up out this bitch, huh?
and if life a bitch suck my dick huh?
and I bet she fucked the whole clique, huh
By the way *****, you should fuckin' quit, *****
Just forget it, you talk it, I live it
Like Eli I did it, jokes on you muthafucker and I get it
No paper hoe, but you can have some more of me
Or-gy, or are we speakin methaphorically
Historically, I'm kickin' bitches out like Pam, *****
Goin' HAM *****, me and Jigga
and a ***** still young, wanna have no kids
But I've been practicing with some actresses as bad as shit
And a few white girls, asses flat a shit
But the head so good, damn a ***** glad he hit
Got em jumpin' out the building
Watch out below, a million out the door

If this verse was spat by 2Pac, then everybody saying it's an amazing verse by the GOAT rapper, some may hold it as his favorite verse bar none, and praise Pac's genius for the kingdom references and the Throne analogy.

It's all hypocritical, people trying to disguise their opinions as facts, while they're in fact hipsters with no base off their judgement, just sticking with the familiar.

1. In terms of passion, emotion and charisma-Tupac is above Kanye. High above.

How so? Kanye's passion is visible in everything he does, from his lyrics, to his delivery, to his production. Kanye West's passion, personality and charisma are his best traits and no rapper was ever better in those categories. When Kanye speaks, you listen to what he says, even if it's an I Don't Like type of verse, Kanye's passion will force you to listen to what he's saying. Even when he's singing, in songs like Runaway or Coldest Winter, you can feel his emotion and you can easily tell which state of mind he was when he was creating that specific record.

In Jesus Walks (And College Dropout as a whole), Kanye was very original, one of the first mainstream artist to come up rapping about content that isn't gangbanging and partying like it's your birthday, at that time, things were different, and Kanye changed it. Everybody was rocking baggy XXL shirts, when Kanye West came along, hi-tops, skinny jeans, and waxed denim is all back in fashion. He's the definition of an outsider that's so cool everybody started idolizing him, because his personality was non-rebuttable. He forces you to look at what he does and what he's saying, he's a far more interesting personality than 2Pac.

2. I think Pac is a bit overrated, but 2Pac will always symbolize rap in a way that Kanye will never do. Never

Of course 2Pac will symbolize "rap" more than Kanye will. You wanna know why I'm saying that? Because Kanye isn't sticking with the standard formula, he's always co-operating other genres and other things with his music. 2Pac might be able to symbolize Hip Hop in a way, but that's only because he's limited to Hip Hop, he isn't doing anything else. It's like when I described Hip Hop elitists, some people will prefer the "pure" form over everything. Personally, if you asked me who do I see symbolizes Hip Hop the most, I'd reply with a Talib Kweli. If you asked me to answer with one man who symbolizes every genre of music at the same time, I might answer with a "Kanye West". That's much bigger than the genre, that's music, the whole wide "music". Because he's really the only one of his kind. And that's much much better than representing one rib of an icosagon.

3. Kanye, as a rapper, can never be compared to Tupac. Never. None of his songs will never be better than Changes, Dear Mamma, Letter 2 My Unborn, Untill The End Of Time... No matter how long artistic musical interlude Kanye has before his rapping comes.

2Pac is of course, a great rapper/artist. He has that passion and charisma that only 5% of rappers can catch up with and that's why his fanbase is so huge, but if my statistic is accurate, Kanye is one of those 5% rappers (inb4jayelectronica [double entendre dont even ask me how]).

Kanye's a better rapper than Tupac, he has mastered elements of rapping that 2Pac never would've, he has that wisdom, that wittiness, different aspects of lyricism that all gather up to create a final product that's much better than a 2Pac product. If you look at Pac's discography, or maybe list the top 10 Pac track, it'll fall short next to Kanye's, let me mention some songs that I feel are better than Pac's discography, Jesus Walks, Gorgeous, Diamonds from Sierra Leone, Can't Tell Me Nothing, Hey Mama, Through The Wire, Flashing Lights, Roses, Bring Me Down, Chain Heavy, etc etc etc.

And it's not even about the musical interludes as you call it, it's about the accuracy of it's placement. Who could've thought while listening to Runaway that "this song needs an auto-tuned breakdown at the end"? No one, but Kanye thought of it, Kanye did it, Kanye made it work. Kanye, again, proving his open-minded creativity, genius skills and artistic mind.

He's a visionary, after all. I would say he's the Steve Jobs of rap music. And no matter how much you dislike him, it's irrefutable to deny his greatness overall. Comparing him with the likes of Pac? It's all opinions and shit, but it's ridiculous to think it's a stupid comparison, because a lot of people will prefer Kanye, and a lot of people will prefer Pac. I mean, they're completely different artists after all, but then again some people might feel the need to say they "don't understand how somebody would prefer X over Y", well, now you should.

good shit negro

[12characters]

It's simple, if you don't want to hear straight hip hop spitting rap or good emcees you don't listen to Kanye West. If you want GOOD sounding music with normal lyrics, then he's all for you.

And NO, fuck NO Kanye West isn't an amazing lyricist. Hell, any GOOD member is better than him. He's just more creative, which is why he's as famous as he is now. Kanye West would've NEVER got recognized if he started rapping before he produced. That's a fact you just can't deny.

/Thread/Thread/Thread boii

"Funny how I'm only sick, if you never catch a thing"
-Lupe Fiasco

/discussion.. to be honest that line alone changed my whole perspective of "lyricism".

If you never caught a thing he said, then wouldn't that mean he's not sick?

[12characters]

If you never caught a thing he said, then wouldn't that mean he's not sick?

He was saying how people say he's only sick on lyrical massacre type of songs that will go over your head (never catch) like Failure, Dumb it Down and Mean & Vicious, and say he's disappointing on songs with a direct aim and less wordplays, such as Never Forget You, Intruder Alert, etc.

I think there's a double entendre with the whole sick/catch a thing word choice, but it could be a reach.

That's what I was getting at, but it wouldn't work/be correct because of you're not sick if you don't catch anything.

Unless, you treat it as a more general type of thing. Like just on the wordplay itself. Sick/Catch.

But of course, he's full of shit because lyrical massacre =/= stuff over your head.

[DƎRDYPK]

neither, BASED GOD!

[LIL_B]

neither, BASED GOD!

my boi

[12characters]

That's what I was getting at, but it wouldn't work/be correct because of you're not sick if you don't catch anything.

Unless, you treat it as a more general type of thing. Like just on the wordplay itself. Sick/Catch.

But of course, he's full of shit because lyrical massacre =/= stuff over your head.

Yeah, probably.

I shouldn't have described it as "lyrical massacre" lol. I meant songs that "go over your head", like Failure. That's what he meant also.

Sounds more like he's referring to "over the top metaphorical" types rather than "lyrical massacre".
Like he wants people to appreciate song that aren't necessarily whack lyrically but aren't impressive or notable.

[Fleka]

Like I said, love and adore Kanye West, I don`t care. If you like his music, that is ok.
But, he is an mediocre rapper that mixes all kinds of stuff in his music because he isn`t a good enough lyricist to carry out a whole album based on the lyrics. So he "transcends" the genre by having half of the song with nothing but the beat and the other half of the song is him whining auto tuned more than Cher.
If Eminem did something like that-"He fell off and sold out by making music for teenage girls just to sell the records and make more money."
But when Kanye does it, he is transcending the music with his brilliant experiments...
That is my opinion. Ok? If you think differently, fine.
Oh, and this is a rap forum, and when we talk about rap-Tupac>>>>>>>>>>Kanye.

[12characters]

Sounds more like he's referring to "over the top metaphorical" types rather than "lyrical massacre".
Like he wants people to appreciate song that aren't necessarily whack lyrically but aren't impressive or notable.

Nothing's wrong with that. Maybe these songs with a direct aim and less attention paid to metaphors and wordplays mean more to him than tracks like Failure, he doesn't want people to only listen to him for wordplays, he wants people listen to what's he's saying in his other deeper tracks, perhaps like the tribute to his father, he wants people to know that he's more than a wordplay lyricist. Some people will say he's only sick on tracks like Failure and he's whack on other shit, I mean, if you were him, you would get mad at that as well.

I was just deciphering the line.

If we're talking opinions on the matter though, I'd say "meh" -Eminembase.
I get his frustrations, and if I cared him for him as an artist I might feel his pain. You can't be mad though, if you genially suck in certain categories and people decide to express that.

His wordplay stuff >>>>>
but I don't mind him switching it up if it's good.

[Fleka]

Why should you take anything seriously?
Kanye stereotype that has been shut down literally ages ago? What stereotype? Who did that? When? His fans on the internet forums? I said my opinion about Kanye, you called it a stereotype. Now I will call your admiration for him a stereotype because it was proven, so many times and so long ago, on that same forums, that he is a bad lyricist that exaggerates with auto tune and "genre transcending musical interludes". And what will you do?
Oh, and Tupac>>>>>>>Kanye wasn`t a shot back. It was my opinion.
Read your posts, you are becoming "Online argument stereotype", since that word is popular in this debate. You act you are the smartest, like you are saying facts, not your opinion and at the end you say something like "Why should I take you seriously?". Like you are better than others and members here should actually care how seriously you take them.
We will never agree on this, let`s leave it at that.

[Slim Fiasco]

Kanye West > Life on earth

[BigBoss]

tbh if it wasnt for pac and biggie, rap would be less popular

[Blu]

that he is a bad lyricist that exaggerates with auto tune and "genre transcending musical interludes".

WHAT?!

Oh fuck...when was the last time Kanye used autotune?

Wait, more importantly...what does that have to do with ANYTHING? Him using autotune has no affect on his music. The last time I recall Kanye using autotune was on "Runaway", at the end of the song. I thiiiiink he used it again on Watch The Throne, but I'm not sure.

It's pretty stupid you mention his "genre transcending musical interludes" considering that's what makes some of his songs really great. It makes the whole musical experience awesome.

I'll be perfectly honest here...Tupac was great for his time, but he isn't anywhere NEAR most of today's rappers. He had a good message, spit some good storytelling here and there, and his voice really hooked the listener in...but when you really think about it, his music isn't anything exciting. You can definitely bump some Pac when you're with your boys or at a party or something, but his music wasn't really all that jaw-dropping.

So for that, I'd have to say Kanye.