9/11 Conspiracies

[EminemBase]

^^ I've heard most of Griffin's viewpoints on WTC 7, the Towers and The Pentagon in his presentations.

I personally prefer the way Richard Gage lays everything out though. He's a professional architect and has worked on many huge high-riser constructs over the span of his career.

What I prefer about Gage is the fact he purposely doesn't speculate. He leads and closes with scientific facts only and refuses to speculate or guess, just so as to make it so easy for assholes like ABC to perform a character defamation on him.

Which is why they barely acknowledge him at all. It's the reason they only ever choose to interview anti-government nuts who don't know much of the actual evidence or if they do, they ignore it anyway and try and paint the person as a deluded conspiracy fiend. I've never seen them address any of the actual facts.

[Emadyville]

^^ Well, one other guy I really liked was from this video on youtube, the guy was a professor at MIT and it was like 45-50 minutes about the collapses, and he says that the path of debris from when both towers and building 7 collapsed, the way it moved/was formed (I saw it awhile ago, I think this what he said) can only happy naturally in two instances, ones a volcano and the other I forget, but he continued to explain that it could not happen without people causing it, only those other 2 ways, which obviously weren't the case. I wish I remembered the video, anyway that was the most interesting thing I remember. Idk maybe you can find it on youtube.

[Fa-Q]

I don't do research because its stupid to do so...what would I look up? Endless Gov't conspiracy sites saying this and that about 9/11? I know what I saw that day, and endless videos that say this and that about 9/11, freefall speed, debris, or thermite, tell me how many buildings had a plane loaded with fuel crash into them. And if that means I'm just believing a lie, I guess it means that. I have better time than to just jack off to Youtube videos of professors that are looking for things to pin on Bush just like Republicans looking for stuff to pin on Obama. Or to see pictures, that for a flash look like there was something else on the underbelly of the plane. I really don't think that the government is stupid enough to leave loose ends like that open....just my opinion

[DrRapid]

Holy shit I have too much to catch up here with, been away.

[Emadyville]

I don't do research because its stupid to do so...what would I look up? Endless Gov't conspiracy sites saying this and that about 9/11? I know what I saw that day, and endless videos that say this and that about 9/11, freefall speed, debris, or thermite, tell me how many buildings had a plane loaded with fuel crash into them. And if that means I'm just believing a lie, I guess it means that. I have better time than to just jack off to Youtube videos of professors that are looking for things to pin on Bush just like Republicans looking for stuff to pin on Obama. Or to see pictures, that for a flash look like there was something else on the underbelly of the plane. I really don't think that the government is stupid enough to leave loose ends like that open....just my opinion

I understand your opinion, and agree that you don't have to do any research or that for any reason you should have to.

I guess my point (as well as embase's) is that, not only in cases like this with 'conspiracy theories', but in other events in life, you have to put in your own time and research in order to have a respected opinion. Basically, you saying I don't wanna look it up, but from what I know and saw I don't think it's any different then the story presented, is just fine.

With 9/11, it's just one of those things that people get very confrontational about because it's such a terrible and devastating thing that affected everyone in so many ways.

So I guess we can just agree to disagree

[EminemBase]

I don't do research because its stupid to do so...what would I look up? Endless Gov't conspiracy sites saying this and that about 9/11? I know what I saw that day, and endless videos that say this and that about 9/11, freefall speed, debris, or thermite, tell me how many buildings had a plane loaded with fuel crash into them. And if that means I'm just believing a lie, I guess it means that. I have better time than to just jack off to Youtube videos of professors that are looking for things to pin on Bush just like Republicans looking for stuff to pin on Obama. Or to see pictures, that for a flash look like there was something else on the underbelly of the plane. I really don't think that the government is stupid enough to leave loose ends like that open....just my opinion

No, FORGET the politics of it. You look up the Science.

Those buildings 100%, absolutely, could not of, by the laws of physics fell the way they did WITHOUT being controlled demolition.

So forget what you think the Government would or wouldn't have done, what they would of left open. You look at the facts and work backwards. Your emotional assumptions are not truth.

[AbramIsaac]

Your foolish to think Bush did it.

I don't do research because its stupid to do so...

You're right.

It's foolish to have an opinion based on research of the facts. Now...to have an opinion based on assumption and emotion--that's solid.

[Hiphopdane]

The only reason why there is so many conspiraies is because no one has ever really got to the bottom of it.

I don't really know what to believe but it annoys me that the journalists are a bunch of pussies. It's pretty obvious that there is something more in it than just some terrorist trying to kill civillian people.

Why has no one ever questioned the collapse of building 7? It doesn't make Bush look any better that he used the attack as en excuse to make money in Iraq... The only mass destruction weapon they found in Iraq was Bush himself. "But the caught Hussein"... yeah but it's not his job to make peace in the world... if it was then he should be attacking North korea or Lybia now (if he was still in charge).

The conservative people in america should definitely respect Barack Obama more than they do. I know the guy hasn't really done anything to stop the war in Afghanistan but I guess there's something to clean up after Bush. You can't deny that he's definitely doing something for the people. At the moment he's trying to prevent terrorist from getting nuclear weapon.

[EminemBase]

^ Nobody has questioned the collapse of WTC 7 because they were behind it. It fell in SEVEN SECONDS. In perfect symmetry, top to bottom. Destroying itself in acceleration as it came down. Are you serious, if anybody thinks that can 'just happen' they're a moron. That takes a team of professionals. The towers also fell in the exact same fashion.

As for Obama not 'stopping the war', people are very naive. They assume a new President will come in and suddenly, with a quick wave of a wand everything will change overnight. Pulling the troops immediately would be a stupid move at this point. All these retards you see shouting "GET THE TROOPS OUT YEAH WHOO!" have no fucking clue what they're on about. In war strategy, I mean at this point... You can't just pull everyone out.

Also, there's only ever an illusion of power, with any leader. He ultimately will have the final decision or most important input factor but there are many shades beneath that shadow. Many layers of invisible power, advisors upon advisors. Vice upon vice upon yada yada. So it's not like Obama is just doing a one man job there.

[mrjizzbomber]

I don't do research because its stupid to do so...what would I look up? Endless Gov't conspiracy sites saying this and that about 9/11? I know what I saw that day, and endless videos that say this and that about 9/11, freefall speed, debris, or thermite, tell me how many buildings had a plane loaded with fuel crash into them. And if that means I'm just believing a lie, I guess it means that. I have better time than to just jack off to Youtube videos of professors that are looking for things to pin on Bush just like Republicans looking for stuff to pin on Obama. Or to see pictures, that for a flash look like there was something else on the underbelly of the plane. I really don't think that the government is stupid enough to leave loose ends like that open....just my opinion

No, FORGET the politics of it. You look up the Science.

Those buildings 100%, absolutely, could not of, by the laws of physics fell the way they did WITHOUT being controlled demolition.

So forget what you think the Government would or wouldn't have done, what they would of left open. You look at the facts and work backwards. Your emotional assumptions are not truth.

The towers fell the way they fall by design

[UofLCard]

I myself believe it was an act of terrorism issued by the Al-Queda. But no one will know for certain. Either way, I do know that 3,000 innocent people died including many children as young as 3.

[mrjizzbomber]

Conspiracy theories bank of being able to find discrepancies in what was documented to happen. That is not hard to do, especially when a lot of what happened isn't clear. Conspiracy theories put the documented 'truth' to the greatest amount of scrutiny, and people get crazy and rilled up about a few minor discrepancies between what was reported to have happened and what appeared to have happened.

In other words, just because there are a few confusing details in what was reported does NOT mean everything reported is bullshit. It just means were not 100% sure on the facts and details.

If the conspiracy theory and the documented truth were to switch places... by that I mean, if we were to 'accept' the conspiracy, imagine how simple it would be to 'disprove it'. If the 'truth' was that the CIA blew up the towers... there would be 1000x the discrepancies in that truth than we have now. You wouldn't be able to pass that along as being the 'truth' for 10 seconds. Its just ridiculous.

I feel like I made a terrible job making that point, but hopefully you follow. I'm tired...

[Emadyville]

Conspiracy theories bank of being able to find discrepancies in what was documented to happen. That is not hard to do, especially when a lot of what happened isn't clear. Conspiracy theories put the documented 'truth' to the greatest amount of scrutiny, and people get crazy and rilled up about a few minor discrepancies between what was reported to have happened and what appeared to have happened.

In other words, just because there are a few confusing details in what was reported does NOT mean everything reported is bullshit. It just means were not 100% sure on the facts and details.

If the conspiracy theory and the documented truth were to switch places... by that I mean, if we were to 'accept' the conspiracy, imagine how simple it would be to 'disprove it'. If the 'truth' was that the CIA blew up the towers... there would be 1000x the discrepancies in that truth than we have now. You wouldn't be able to pass that along as being the 'truth' for 10 seconds. Its just ridiculous.

I feel like I made a terrible job making that point, but hopefully you follow. I'm tired...

No you made a solid point, but I don't understand why you would say a few confusing details, since there were so many, and many of them major and involving science.

[Nick. Y]

I personally think their own government did this shit... Not only because I watched some documentary movies about it, there is truth in them, but there's some fiction and exaggeration.People have to extract certain facts from them and as others pointed before me here, I'll save that explanation and state that many things prove the "inside job" .Immortal Tech has said some more shit in his songs too and maybe the reason he's still alive is because he does not have the power to change something, he's not an honest famous politician, he's a regular man.. otherwise he woulda been dead by now, like Kennedy, Lincoln, Martin Luther King,Wellstone e.t.c .The ones who you don't see pull the presidents strings,Bush was to blame because he was president at the time they don't give much of a choice : either you get down or you lay down. Why is it that every honest politician, who REALLY has good intentions gets killed or dies in a strange way..who ever is in their path gets obliterated And Imagine how sick these cocksuckers are, when they kill so many innocent, who were in and around the towers, just to say that some guy called bin laden did it and the whole nation gets filled with wrath and desire for vengeance.. that's just an excuse and a reason to attack the countries from the Far East. Same shit was the conflict with Vietnam - the americans blew their own ships ( I think that was the case, I'm not sure if my facts are straight ) claiming the slanted ones did it.Well ..Life ain't fair, because There are some "people" enthralled from obsession for greatness and believe the world belongs to them and most human beings are just pawns and slaves, fuck that shit..

[mrjizzbomber]

No you made a solid point, but I don't understand why you would say a few confusing details, since there were so many, and many of them major and involving science.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by details "involving the science". Do you mean 'how did the buildings collapse'?

This is usually as far as I let someone get with their 9/11 conspiracy theory. They say, 'the building couldn't have collapsed, because jet fuel doesn't burn hot enough to melt steel'. Why does that mean the building couldn't have collapsed?

The processes of failure which occur in a material are many and complex. Melting is not the only route to failure. Materials are chock filled with imperfections: voids, cracks, grain boundaries, etc. Propagation of these imperfections will cause failure. When the material is heated, these imperfections propagate at a much higher rate. When a material is stressed, these imperfections propagate at a much higher rate. So, smashing a jumbo jet into the building (HUGE stress) + exploding the jet fuel in a massive fireball (HUGE amount of HEAT) = lots and lots and lots of opportunities for the material to fail.

I say there are a 'few' confusing details because I really haven't been presented with very many things which are inexplicable. There are some, but only a few. Most of the time people are presented with poor facts and bad science, and they accept it because they do not know any better. Most people will hear 'jet fuel doesn't burn hot enough to melt the building's steel' and say 'oh! then how is it possible it collapsed??'. Well, the actual science of materials is much deeper than 'melt or you're fine', but people don't want to take the time to understand the full processes involved.