would the eminem of 2002 of mocked the eminem of 2010 ?

[Kez]

How is it lazy writing? It's world class writing.

I'm sorry i just don't think so, lol. Personally i don't think it's hard to write shit like that, especially since he's done it before plenty of times.

[MikeNUFC]

How is it lazy writing? It's world class writing.

I'm sorry i just don't think so, lol. Personally i don't think it's hard to write shit like that, especially since he's done it before plenty of times.

How has he?

He's never written about domestic violence in such a way.

As in, it's not as personal as his other stuff about Kim - it's a far more broad subject matter - Em usually raps about himself but although he bases this on something in his life, it's delivered far more broadly.

I understand you not liking it but I dont get how you think the verses are lazy. He must have taken ages writing the first and third verses.

[Kez]

As in, it's not as personal as his other stuff about Kim - it's a far more broad subject matter - Em usually raps about himself but although he bases this on something in his life, it's delivered far more broadly.

I understand you not liking it but I dont get how you think the verses are lazy. He must have taken ages writing the first and third verses.

He has written about domestic violence plenty. Love You More is the perfect example; the only difference is, since he wasn't making a song designed to appeal to pop, he alluded to it and did it more subtly, making it overall much better. How can you say Love You More doesn't cover domestic violence? "Punch you in the mouth, we fist fight till we turn this motha out, and apologise after"?

I think it's lazy cause most of it's just the standard mushy crap people say about "love". All this "barely breathe when you're with em", "warm fuzzy feeling", "chills" etc is incredibly predictable. I understand that that's because the pop audience will like that shit but that just makes me dislike the idea of the song more. On top of that, even you have admitted that the "window pain" line was fucking stupid.

Also, it is basically about Em. It aint some big departure from his other songs about this lol. It's clearly about Kim whether you try to say that he's talking more broadly or not. Only difference is he don't mention her name. Shoving Rihanna on the hook does not change the fact that it's three verses that are about his relationship with Kim. All he's done additionally is indulge his fantasies about hitting her, which is supposed to make it deviate from a song about Kim to a song about domestic violence which omg every woman can ttly relate to man!!

Don't get me wrong, it's a decent song, some of the lyrics are pretty good. But i just find it annoying that this song is basically a dressed-up version of Love You More, yet every fucker goes nuts over it because it's got Em shouting over a beat and Rihanna on the chorus.

[MikeNUFC]

^I disagree. Love You More was far more personal.

Plus, with LYM he was trying to do a serious song yet he had lines like "You're the only one I can fuck without a condom on" and "So we fuck 'til we bust" - they sound so out of place in the song.

What I'm saying is, with LTWYL, he is quite obviously being far more braoder. There is too obvious mention of Kim. no mention of his daughters or his family or his career. It's obviously made to reach a larger broader demographic. Hence Rihanna on the hook, hence him not acting the part in the video.

Whatever you wann think, Rihanna is on there becuase she was in a violent relationship. You can think what you want about Rihanna but on this track, I honestly believe she was on it soley for the purpose of the song.

It's not watered down at all. It has lines just as/more than violent as Love You More.

The rhyming is a million times better than Love You More. I like LYM but the rhyming is nothing extraordinary. He's not toned down his lyrical ability at all for it. He may have cliched lines but he's had cliched lines in lots of other songs previous to this.

But I get your point - I just wanted to pick up on the "lazy writing" side when it isn't lazy writing becuase the internal rhymes and multies are fantastically put togther.

[Hiphopdane]

It's like I'm huffing paint and I love it the more I suffer, I suffocate
And right before I'm about to drown, she resuscitates me
She fucking hates me and I love it.

But your temper's just as bad as mine is
You're the same as me
But when it comes to love you're just as blinded

You meet and neither one of you even know what hit 'em
Got that warm fuzzy feeling
Yeah, them those chills you used to get 'em
Now you're getting fucking sick of looking at 'em

I apologize even though I know its lies
I'm tired of the games I just want her back
I know I'm a liar

I think those parts describe such a relationship perfectly. Besides, I like how Rihanna's part of the song sums up the female perspective. It makes it much easier to relate to for female listeners and probably helps guys out there realize how violence isn't cool (in other words: It sends a broad message).

The song also represents a more mature side of Eminem. In the past he rapped about killing bitches, this song shows that he is aware of violence being a problem.

As for Love you more, I honesly don't consider that a part of any of his albums since it was some bonus song on a limited edition of Encore. It doesn't really count for anything in my book.

[Kez]

What I'm saying is, with LTWYL, he is quite obviously being far more braoder. There is too obvious mention of Kim. no mention of his daughters or his family or his career. It's obviously made to reach a larger broader demographic. Hence Rihanna on the hook, hence him not acting the part in the video.

All very true, i just hate the idea that he thinks he has to change his shit to sell - i mean he's fucking Eminem, he could do anything and have people buy it (see: Encore and Relapse) and yet he tones himself down to this level.

Whatever you wann think, Rihanna is on there becuase she was in a violent relationship. You can think what you want about Rihanna but on this track, I honestly believe she was on it soley for the purpose of the song. It's not watered down at all. It has lines just as/more than violent as Love You More.

Well we gonna have to just agree to disagree there, i think Rihanna doesn't give a fuck at all and will do anything if she knows it'll sell. And i do think it's watered down, but whatever, opinions opinions.

The rhyming is a million times better than Love You More. I like LYM but the rhyming is nothing extraordinary. He's not toned down his lyrical ability at all for it. He may have cliched lines but he's had cliched lines in lots of other songs previous to this.

Yeah that is a bit true, i do like how he delivers the end of the last verse and the rhymes sound good with it. Plus i never suggested he toned down his lyrical ability (although the window pain line and the Nintendo game line were both pretty stupid imo but that's the mode he was in over the whole album) cause that'd just be stupid.

But I get your point - I just wanted to pick up on the "lazy writing" side when it isn't lazy writing becuase the internal rhymes and multies are fantastically put togther.

Yeah from the technical standpoint don't get me wrong it's perfectly decent, it's just the stuff around it i was talking about. Strip all that away and it's not a terrible song (though I do think it's sub-par what he normally writes conceptually)

As for Love you more, I honesly don't consider that a part of any of his albums since it was some bonus song on a limited edition of Encore. It doesn't really count for anything in my book.

Oh right, so you don't think Stimulate counts for anything either then i take it? Since it aint on an album? Get the fuck out

[Hiphopdane]

Oh right, so you don't think Stimulate counts for anything either then i take it? Since it aint on an album? Get the fuck out

And you're a mod? What a joke..

[MikeNUFC]

The song also represents a more mature side of Eminem. In the past he rapped about killing bitches, this song shows that he is aware of violence being a problem.

Exactly.

On such a subject, it's almost certain some cliched lines will pop up but it's the way he delivers them within other parts of the verse that make them okay in my book. And the fact, theres only like 4 cliched phrases (Nintendo game one being the worst)

[Kez]

Oh right, so you don't think Stimulate counts for anything either then i take it? Since it aint on an album? Get the fuck out

And you're a mod? What a joke..

Why does the fact that my opinion's different to yours mean i'm not a suitable mod? You don't see me locking threads cause people disagree with me or locking them for no reason, you don't see me editing peoples' posts because i don't like what they say. I'm a perfectly fair mod.

[Hiphopdane]

On such a subject, it's almost certain some cliched lines will pop up but it's the way he delivers them within other parts of the verse that make them okay in my book. And the fact, theres only like 4 cliched phrases (Nintendo game one being the worst)

I don't really mind the Nintendo line. In fact, I like how he makes references to stuff that you normally don't expect in a love song (Superman/Louis Lane, Nintendo, tornado/volcano). It gives the song extra dimensions and makes it more colourful.

I agree with the first part of your post. It's almost inevitable that you'll have some corny lines in a love song. I mean, there's a million tracks out there about that topic and I guess almost every expression has been used a couple of times now.

[katha]

I think songs like Kim and Bonnie and Clyde also show awareness about domestic violence. He's just emotionally still so caught up in the dysfunction. But IMO it's not presented as something positive. Perhaps cathartic, but not in a "yay! Aren't I cool?" way. At least I think they're horrifying, perhaps it's different for men?

LTWYL is more of an analysis of these patterns. It's broader and shows why people stay in these situations. Rihanna went back to Chris Brown even after he almost choked her to death. It's not always only fear and terror holding these things together. And again, I also think the classical love song formula is used deliberately and twisted.

ETA: How is being popular with teenage girls selling out? This argument has been made a couple of times and I don't get it? I was a teenage girl when I started listening to Eminem. Winning some "Cool Olympics" has nothing to do with the quality of the music. I bet Stan was popular with teenage girls as well. Doesn't make it a bad song. Writing a song that also reflects the experiences of females isn't selling out to The Man.

[classthe_king]

I just wanted to say that this was a great thread and for some reason I read the entire thing.
But I want to say that I agree with Kez, LTWYL sucked. It may be a more mature side of Em but it was also a more bitchy sellout side of Em. When all the dumb, teenage girls at my school HATED Eminem, I mean absolutely hated him, but now love him and love LTWYL, then yes he sold out.
Also the only part of the whole song I liked was
"I told you this was my fault, look me in the eye ball
Next time I'm pissed I'll aim my fist at the dry wall"
Or something like that, I don't have it memorized.
I thought this was lazy writing for the most part.

[Hiphopdane]

So he sold out because he made a song that girls also can relate to? Is it possible that those girls you are refering to would have appreciated Eminem more if they actually were aware of some of his early work? I reckon a lot of people judge him on his recent work which include Relapse, an album not many liked.

[classthe_king]

I'm saying Recovery as a whole was him selling out. And yes I've showed those people his earlier work lol, I tried so hard to get everyone to like Eminem, BEFORE Relapse, they wouldn't listen to anything SSLP-MMLP

[classthe_king]

This proves my point

I'm Darcy.
I love Eminem and Adam Lambert ♥
Get to know me

Girl at my school said that. He's classed together with Adam Lambert