Renegade - "Or is he the latter..."

[MikeNUFC]

What is Em referencing here?

The word 'latter' means being the second mentioned of two (distinguished from former), so I dont really see how it works in this context as he doesnt really give a "latter" in the lines previous.

I know he says "gateway to escape" after but you wouldnt say "is he the latter" before that, and the lines beforehand dont really reference "gateway to escape" in a way.

I know it's nitpicking in an otherwise flawless verse but I was just interested.


On the topic of Renegade, I think Jay's first verse slightly trumps Em's first but Em's second trumps Jay's second. 4 amazing verses though.


(and please, if you're gunna post a facepalm or say "stop nitpicking, yo" or "Jay-z is whack", dont bother, if you want a sensible discussion then post)

[DrunkinDonutz]

stop nitpicking, yo.

[EminemBase]

He's saying is he a scapegoat.

At the beginning of the verse he said he's a poet to some (1st), then a few lines, then the second thing to which the 'latter' is referring to metaphorically tying in with 'scapegoat' is - "a monger of hate / scatter-brained atheist".

Using the word more loosely to reference the flip-side of a summation a short while after, as opposed to immediately. He summed-up what both sides think of him to a degree and he's saying is he what the people other than fans think of him and therefore, a media scapegoat.

"Is he the latter?" (a monger of hate)...
*pause / therefore* = a gateway to escape / media scapegoat?

He's saying they try to paint him as that, implying he's not that and they're using that as political escapism. So he implies he's a scapegoat by saying that, then refers to it when he says "is he the latter", then asks it rhetorically and blatantly.

This kind of writing is why him > hip-hop. Nobody writes this well.

He's unlike a rapper or just a lyricist. He's like a true writer, who uses rap as a medium. Rather than a rapper who uses writing as a medium. Relapse is a true display of his high-literacy skill too, not just vocabulary (which he doesn't go overboard on), which is trivial anyway - but actual writing technique; context, character and nuance. Real detail and flair.

[MikeNUFC]

Hmm, well, that was what I originally thought but it just seems kinda odd structurally - I guess it's because of:

"But that ain't the case, see it's a matter of taste
We as a people decide if Shady's as bad as they say he is"

coming directly after the 'latter' and before the "or is the latter" line. So it kinda interrupts the actual connection between the two.

[EminemBase]

Yeah but it's connected still by "as they say he is".

'to shatter the picture in which of that as they paint me'

(they paint him as X, to use as scapegoat)

Then it stays connected with "as they say he is", referencing how they paint him.

Then finalized with "is he the latter"? - the latter of the two perceptions.

I can see how some would find it a bit of a lengthy gap between posing the question "is he the latter?" but I think it's timed just about right. It's such superb writing.

[buffalo bill]

Obviously he says "ladder". Jacob's Ladder was a gateway to heaven, and the whole verse is full of Christian references. So there

I actually think it sounds like "ladder"