Libya

[MikeNUFC]

This section seems kind of dead since Abraam and jizzbomber never seem to post anymore but fuck it, might as well try and spark up some sort of debate.

What's everyones views/thoughts on it?

For me, I look at it from 2 stances - there's no doubt that Gadaffi is an evil man and needs to be stopped. I don't think anyone in their right mind can deny that. Do I agree with going in though? No.

Firstly you have the reasons for going in. There's a reason we (the allies) aren't going to Saudi or Zimbabwe or Congo or Bahrain. And it's not really necessarly oil, which seems to be the main argument people are raising - it's where Libya borders - Tunisia and Egypt. Both have fought struggles to get rid of dictators and at the moment are in a state of limbo - great for the US to try and assert their authority there right?

It's also taking light away from other areas - a NATO plane went down in Afghanistan killing two innocent Afghans - I doubt many of you even heard about that. If it was in Lybia we wouldn't have heard the end of it.

I've got lots more to write lol but it's late and I'm tired so I'll leave it at that.

[WakeUpShow]

hmmm....I don't agree with going in. It's their business, let them sort it out.

[Robbie G]

When I first heard that France and then the U.S were taking military action I was happy. Like you said Gaddafi is a monster and deserves to be killed. The war doesn't seem to be well thought out however, and it doesn't seem like we have any plan for victory. At this point we can't just pull out and make ourselves look weak.

On top of that it's come out that a lot of the Libyan rebels are connected with Al-Qaeda, and even fought U.S troops in Afghanistan. The whole situation is messed.

[Tornado]

Well it's hard to say from both sides. No One wants an evil dictator running their country, killing civilians, so i can symphasize with the revolt. Trouble is, with no one in command and no plan for the country even if something gets sorted out, the fighting is hurting the country even more. I'm sure the Libyan people wouldn't want the Western countries to come in and turn their country into Iraq 2 which is how people might see it after the US came into the Middle East so it's hard for people not to be cynical. At the same time, the rebels wouldn't let that happen without a fight, which'll mean more bloodshed.

Libya is just a big, violent civil war which other countries are gonna get involved in

[mdemaz]

It's terrible what is happening...I wish people wouldn't do these things...
It really screws up the fragile sanity they have left around those countries right now.
At the end of the day, something has to give...Hopefully it's that dictator.
I'm never a fan of civil wars..90 percent of them are pointless...In fact, any war is pointless.
Nothing is gained but agony and death.
Hopefully this stops because we've had enough of the violence in the past..We don't want history to repeat itself.
I have relatives fighting in Iraq and I know how it feels to have someone you love in danger..These people feel like that 24/7.
It's just stupid...We can all argue sometimes but when we start killing each other, that's just fucked up.

[Bistnal]

I think it's great that Libya (and other Arab countries) are revolting finally against these brutal dictators. However, I really think the U.S. and other western countries should stay out of it. They really need to stop meddling in other countries, like Tornado said, this could just end up being an Iraq 2 which is the last thing we need. Granted, Gaddafi does deserve to be killed and tortured, but U.S. intervention won't be good in the long run.

[M15HKA]

I wrote this in another thread a month ago

What a fucken surprise. A lot of European nations had big Oil contracts with Gadaffi basically friends with him then they saw he was being over thrown and to keep their contracts they sided with the rebels. America's government of course wants a slice of the cake. Business is fucken business. Why is US backing force in Libya but not Bahrain, Yemen(Where the same shit is happening)?????? Answer:Bahrain and Yemen are US allies - especially Bahrain with its large US naval base. Libya is not. Why not install a puppet regime which will have a pro American stance no matter what?

Not a fan of Gadaffi but the nation had stability just like Iraq under Sadaam. Now look at Iraq the majority of the population wish all this never happened. In the end the Libyan people will suffer even more from all this.

Why don't these nato countries bomb the fuck out of Zimbabwe where Mugabe has sent the country into chaos.. oh no oil, no gas no resources no point placing a puppet over there let the people suffer. Libya, Iraq different story get some oil and tell everyone the goal was to save civilians.

Don't hate Americans they are good people but fucken hell constantly lied to by their government and creating enemies worldwide when will this shit end.
---
That was written in the spirit of the moment I was fueled up in rage when I wrote it haha.

[MikeNUFC]

^Good points although I think oil isn't the main incentive (but it is one) - I think the main incentive is the geography of Libya and the countries that border it which are in a state of limbo.

Amazing how Britain is broke, we're laying of jobs at the rate of knots, cuts here, there and everywhere but we ALWAYS find some money to bomb the fuck out of what will turn out to be innocent civilians. Makes me sick.

And the hypocrisy! We take the dictator's side in Bahrain but not in Libya. It's absolutely ridiculous

[Devil'sAdvocate]

I just think the whole situation is fucked,Guddafi will never be stopped by the rebels,they need a bigger power,the US and the allies are the bigger power,but its like they just went in randomly targeting and bombing with their planes random place,the guy needs to be killed,they need to find out where the fuck he is and kill his ass,straight up.

might as ok,what after that?

Libya is a big country with a small population of uneducated people who are simply working just to eat,the country has oil,gas,petrol,im WITH the US to take over this country and just make it beneficial and help the people of it,by just creating a better system then the thing they are in today.

but then again,almost every lybian wont like his country to be took over,so fuckin what,they brought on themselves.

lol,back to crooked I

[momentisgolden]

Its interesting to see people view Libya and Zimbabwe in the same light

But seriously though, the 2 are different. Its one thing having a dictator (half the world does- China, Zimbabwe, Iraq, Cuba etc) and having a bloodbath like the one happening in Libya. Tbh, i havent followed the news closely, but this "genocide"/ "civil war" is approaching Rwandan disaster, Somalia anarchy or Hitler holocaust. In such situations, i believe motives might not be the most ideal but i understand and respect human life. Intervention would be called for.

Problem is, like someone has pointed out, there was no planning of how to go in or even what to do thereafter. Its tricky. Because, even if you take assassinate Ghaddafi his son and followers will continue the revolt.

I'm not the best war strategist but, just saying, supporting Rebel troupes is enough. (it worked in over-throwing most colonialist all over the world)

[mcZu]

I just think the whole situation is fucked,Guddafi will never be stopped by the rebels,they need a bigger power,the US and the allies are the bigger power,but its like they just went in randomly targeting and bombing with their planes random place,the guy needs to be killed,they need to find out where the fuck he is and kill his ass,straight up.

might as ok,what after that?

Libya is a big country with a small population of uneducated people who are simply working just to eat,the country has oil,gas,petrol,im WITH the US to take over this country and just make it beneficial and help the people of it,by just creating a better system then the thing they are in today.

but then again,almost every lybian wont like his country to be took over,so fuckin what,they brought on themselves.

lol,back to crooked I

So, you basically want it to be a colony (again)? Where is the freedom in that? Isn't the West concerned with advocating democracy all over the world? Just on the premises of how uneducated the Libyans are you want the West to be in control? No single Western country has the right to take over that country, it is against International law. Yes, the country is rich in terms of natural resources, but that should be left to benefit the Libyans, and the Libyans only.

As for my views on the matter, it's... Well, I would class it as a double edged sword. I don't want the Libyans that oppose Gaddafi to perish, and yet, I don't want the West to take control of Libya. I'm against Gaddafi, and in some aspects in favor of Gaddafi.

It is tragical comical however, that the West has been doing business with this dictator for ages, and all of a sudden, they oppose him and his regime. Hypocrites.

Same story in Bahrain, Saudi, etc... Those dictators are getting a ''pass'' just 'cause they are in some form or shape business parterns with Western leaders/companies. And, the minute these dictators lose control in those countries, that's when the West will do a 360.

[Unscarred]

Like Zu said I'm against Gaddafi, and in some aspects in favor of Gaddafi. The West has manufactured this whole scenario for it's own purposes.I don't particularly enjoy Gadhafi or his ways, but still this attack on Libya has nothing to do with democracy. It's about the oil (ok its not only about the oil, but its one of their main reasons) they wanted to rob Cadhafi and they did it, billions of Cadhafi money were frozen form US and European banks, this is what i call a modern robbery.

The funny thing is they're saying they want to protect the civils, and how are they really helping them, by trowing bombs at them. Another joke is the continuing denial that there have been any civilian casualties at all as a result of this bombs which must be running into the thousands by now.

If the cause was genuinely about protecting civilians, why wasn't there a no-fly zone over Gaza when the Israelis were bombarding it in 2008/9 and still are, why was there no protection in Yemen, Bahrein or Sirya etc- because those dicatators are protecting US (mainly their) and other countries interests. And who were the people who armed Ghadafi, the same people who are now declairing war against him, funny aint it .

European Union nations approved sales of $470 million in weapons to Gadhafi's military in 2009 alone.The U.S. peak was $46 million in approved defense sales — up from $5 million in Libyan defense sales the year before. Transfers included guns, ammunition, explosives, chemical/biological materials, surveillance equipment, & military vehicles. Although Gaddafi is often dismissed as mad, but he's a master strategist and think this war will be long.

And just look at the US double standard, really this fuckin country is making me fuckin sick to my stomach

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/US_Th ... ators.html

[Devil'sAdvocate]

So, you basically want it to be a colony (again)? Where is the freedom in that? Isn't the West concerned with advocating democracy all over the world? Just on the premises of how uneducated the Libyans are you want the West to be in control? No single Western country has the right to take over that country, it is against International law. Yes, the country is rich in terms of natural resources, but that should be left to benefit the Libyans, and the Libyans only.

in taking over libya,iight not let the US do it,let the UN do it,the country is rich as fuck with natural resources,let them be used,let those uneducated get educated,why would i want everything to stay the same,what do u think will happen after gaddafi goes,LIBYANS ARE NOT ABLE TO CONTROL THERE OWN COUNTRY,they cant build a government,elect a president,they just cant,somebody needs to atleast tell them how,thats a fact,they just arent qualified,they need help,if not the US the UN,things need to get better,not stay the same or get worse.

this section is very fuckin enjoyable btw,u can get shit out,lol

[mcZu]

So, you basically want it to be a colony (again)? Where is the freedom in that? Isn't the West concerned with advocating democracy all over the world? Just on the premises of how uneducated the Libyans are you want the West to be in control? No single Western country has the right to take over that country, it is against International law. Yes, the country is rich in terms of natural resources, but that should be left to benefit the Libyans, and the Libyans only.

in taking over libya,iight not let the US do it,let the UN do it,the country is rich as fuck with natural resources,let them be used,let those uneducated get educated,why would i want everything to stay the same,what do u think will happen after gaddafi goes,LIBYANS ARE NOT ABLE TO CONTROL THERE OWN COUNTRY,they cant build a government,elect a president,they just cant,somebody needs to atleast tell them how,thats a fact,they just arent qualified,they need help,if not the US the UN,things need to get better,not stay the same or get worse.

this section is very fuckin enjoyable btw,u can get shit out,lol

They need help, yes, but you do realize that the UN cannot give such aid to help sustain an honest government to benefit the future of Libya, right? They can only go that far with helping the country, the Libyans themselves have to get organized and move forward after Gaddafi is gone. The West won't do much to aid the country either, the West is only concerned about profit making. Libya is way too rich in terms of natural resources, a lot of oil companies cannot leave that kind of source without sucking it empty first. On top of that, the West is also concerned about the geographical location of Libya, it borders Tunisia, Egypt, etc...

Arm dealers/weapon companies and oil companies will profit from this. Western governments will profit from this, by making sure to control the region to their benefits. The Libyan people won't profit from this.

And my only concern is the Libyan people.

[Devil'sAdvocate]

then what do u think is the right thing to do after guddafi is done/dead/out of authoruity?
that will be the most beneficial for the libyan people?