Relapse: Refill

[garycal5326]

We all know that Relapse isn't Eminem's favorite album. Has he ever said anything about Refill? Just curious because that technically is part of it.

Ya know, just something I was wondering

[JasonOne99]

What should really be asked is what he thinks about Encore.

[EminemBase]

Well, we don't know that. We know that he said that.

I think it's pretty obvious he thought he alienated fans and said that to appease the people he thought he alienated.

Just look at what happened:

1. He asked Dre repeatedly what he thought people wanted and Dre told him people wanted to hear him spazz out on the mic again. He considered how he wanted to sound like long before he came back, he clearly thinks things through and doesn't move forward until he feels sure.

2. He explained that he didn't want to do introspective shit anymore or make it all about him. And that he was done with that. So it wasn't a "lack of honesty", he knew what he was doing from the start. He was clearly aware that his endless self-obsession and life trouble tales had become tired.

So he obviously wanted to reinvent himself. He said he wanted a new sound with Recovery but he actually went backwards. Relapse was the attempt at the new sound. It sounds nothing like anything else he's done, is abstract and experimental, weird, bouncy and an indulgence in character. The exact kind of shit he should be doing at this point. And he clearly felt it worked within himself, or he wouldn't of wanted to put out two albums of material of the stuff. You don't want to put out two albums worth of material, with material that you don't absolutely LOVE.

3. He mentions Relapse on the first single. So he clearly wanted fans to hear it and he even says "relax, I ain't going back to that now". He's basically begging for approval again, as he thought that he had fucked up his rep and disappointed fans who wanted something else.

4. He knew that "Beautiful" resonated, hence it being a single and it was clearly put on there as a 'safety hit' from day one anyway despite him saying it was put there to "remind him", personally I think that's a crock of shit. They clearly had no single material bar "We Made You", and even that got made late. As it's all rape and murder.

So they needed "Beautiful" on there for a hit. So even though he said he truly didn't give a fuck about what anyone thought anymore and he was doing it just to do it... he still took it in the ass and forceably put a totally out of place song on an album for the sake of appeasing Interscope and making the album commercially successful.

He also went back on his word on not caring what people thought as, as soon as the album got a mixed reception he did the opposite of not caring - he cared more than I've ever seen another artist care at an album's reception. It's such a fucking shame as he treats his fans' opinions with more respect than his fucking own, which is just madness.

It shouldn't matter what ANYONE thinks bar what you think. If an artist is making material for anybody other than himself (or herself) then they're doing it for the wrong reasons.

Eminem used to make music for himself (first three albums). Then with Encore he cared too much about balance and providing people with what they wanted, so fucked it up. Then with Relapse he did go back to a single-minded artist - which is what he should be. And we got a fucking brilliant album, that would of been perfect without two tracks, to me. And some of his tightest lyricism and most hypnotic flows EVER. Because he was just focused on the craft.

Then people bitched, and he trashed what was probably a fucking masterpiece, got a bunch of trendy producers, a few hot names and made predictable, introspective material along the lines of "Beautiful". Think it's a coincidence that "Beautiful" is a heartfelt rap-ballad with singing and a rock sample and Recovery is?... full of that.

I'm honestly mad at him for trashing Relapse 2. I like Recovery and am glad it got made as it has some seriously amazing material. But he compromised himself big time with what he did. And I lost a bit of respect for him. "The Reunion" and some other things also confirm to me that he does not hate or dislike Relapse and just trashed it to win back fans.

PS. Refill is fucking awesome and it only shows that Relapse 2 would of been another level. "Buffalo Bill" is insane, the album probably had some of the best rapping of his career. And if he had fully committed to his vision and ignored people's stupid fucking opinions, and put out intense, movie-like, dark and abstract videos for selected songs throughout 09 and 10... well, it would of been one HELL of a fucking era. It's just, such a shame.

[garycal5326]

Well, we don't know that. We know that he said that.

I think it's pretty obvious he thought he alienated fans and said that to appease the people he thought he alienated.

Just look at what happened:

1. He asked Dre repeatedly what he thought people wanted and Dre told him people wanted to hear him spazz out on the mic again. He considered how he wanted to sound like long before he came back, he clearly thinks things through and doesn't move forward until he feels sure.

2. He explained that he didn't want to do introspective shit anymore or make it all about him. And that he was done with that. So it wasn't a "lack of honesty", he knew what he was doing from the start. He was clearly aware that his endless self-obsession and life trouble tales had become tired.

So he obviously wanted to reinvent himself. He said he wanted a new sound with Recovery but he actually went backwards. Relapse was the attempt at the new sound. It sounds nothing like anything else he's done, is abstract and experimental, weird, bouncy and an indulgence in character. The exact kind of shit he should be doing at this point. And he clearly felt it worked within himself, or he wouldn't of wanted to put out two albums of material of the stuff. You don't want to put out two albums worth of material, with material that you don't absolutely LOVE.

3. He mentions Relapse on the first single. So he clearly wanted fans to hear it and he even says "relax, I ain't going back to that now". He's basically begging for approval again, as he thought that he had fucked up his rep and disappointed fans who wanted something else.

4. He knew that "Beautiful" resonated, hence it being a single and it was clearly put on there as a 'safety hit' from day one anyway despite him saying it was put there to "remind him", personally I think that's a crock of shit. They clearly had no single material bar "We Made You", and even that got made late. As it's all rape and murder.

So they needed "Beautiful" on there for a hit. So even though he said he truly didn't give a fuck about what anyone thought anymore and he was doing it just to do it... he still took it in the ass and forceably put a totally out of place song on an album for the sake of appeasing Interscope and making the album commercially successful.

He also went back on his word on not caring what people thought as, as soon as the album got a mixed reception he did the opposite of not caring - he cared more than I've ever seen another artist care at an album's reception. It's such a fucking shame as he treats his fans' opinions with more respect than his fucking own, which is just madness.

It shouldn't matter what ANYONE thinks bar what you think. If an artist is making material for anybody other than himself (or herself) then they're doing it for the wrong reasons.

Eminem used to make music for himself (first three albums). Then with Encore he cared too much about balance and providing people with what they wanted, so fucked it up. Then with Relapse he did go back to a single-minded artist - which is what he should be. And we got a fucking brilliant album, that would of been perfect without two tracks, to me. And some of his tightest lyricism and most hypnotic flows EVER. Because he was just focused on the craft.

Then people bitched, and he trashed what was probably a fucking masterpiece, got a bunch of trendy producers, a few hot names and made predictable, introspective material along the lines of "Beautiful". Think it's a coincidence that "Beautiful" is a heartfelt rap-ballad with singing and a rock sample and Recovery is?... full of that.

I'm honestly mad at him for trashing Relapse 2. I like Recovery and am glad it got made as it has some seriously amazing material. But he compromised himself big time with what he did. And I lost a bit of respect for him. "The Reunion" and some other things also confirm to me that he does not hate or dislike Relapse and just trashed it to win back fans.

PS. Refill is fucking awesome and it only shows that Relapse 2 would of been another level. "Buffalo Bill" is insane, the album probably had some of the best rapping of his career. And if he had fully committed to his vision and ignored people's stupid fucking opinions, and put out intense, movie-like, dark and abstract videos for selected songs throughout 09 and 10... well, it would of been one HELL of a fucking era. It's just, such a shame.

yea, you made some good points, and I like Relapse, and I think Relapse 2 would have been even better.

[JasonOne99]

If he had released another album with accents I think it would of flopped. Relapse put alot of fans off at the time but now they love it.

[garycal5326]

If he had released another album with accents I think it would of flopped. Relapse put alot of fans off at the time but now they love it.

i think without the accents, it would have been close to perfect

[EminemBase]

If he had released another album with accents I think it would of flopped. Relapse put alot of fans off at the time but now they love it.

I seriously doubt it would of flopped. Don't forget, the reaction was hugely split, not hugely negative. So a lot of people loved Relapse too.

His albums always sell massively because of the effort he puts in. Even if you don't know what he comes up with, his fans know this is something he would of sweated serious man hours over creating. You're truly getting a creation with him.

And even people who disliked the style(s) on Relapse, I remember people still thirsting for the sequel based purely on how intense they thought it must be. To be a sequel to such an already intense album. I loved Relapse from the gate though. And the biggest disappointment in his career thus far to me, was him trashing Relapse 2. And the fact I'll never hear it.

And actually, I remember a ton of people loving it from the gate. I remember even people who say Em had fallen off, on hip-hop forums saying Relapse was some truly hip-hop shit and I even remember well-respected members saying they could see how it was his Illmatic. A lot of people are fake and if they see one person or 'the crowd' say they hate it because of X, they wanna fit in and sometimes even lie to themselves I think. But listening to Relapse for the first time for me was like peeling away at an onion, every time I played it I found a new layer.

And Em doesn't even understand his own fucking music now either lmao because... on Jonathan Ross he said he felt Relapse was kinda like 'you listen once and the joke's over' and that it's not something you can play 'again and again'. Where as I and I know others find the album to have IMMENSE replay value, due to the flows and rhyming. The rhyming and flows are SO tight and addictive that playing the album again is a delight not a hindrance.

And, he said he wanted to progress from that and 'punchlines' and 'the jokes over' kinda stuff and yet that is EXACTLY what he's doing now lmao. And exactly what most of Recovery is. Well, no, you do have some lasting material on Recovery like "Space Bound" and "Cindrella Man". But, the Recovery era will go down as yelling and punchlines.

Everything he says now is a punchline and 'listen once and the jokes over'. Where as Relapse didn't have any punchlines, I think he just thinks any sick piece of humour he says is a punchline. Which, you could say is technically true if it's intended to be funny but, Relapse is incredibly detailed and has incredibly nuanced storytelling and descriptions. It's the opposite of 'listen once', it compells repeat listens to uncover the detail and enjoy obsessive structure.

[Kez]

EmBase nailed it.

It's funny the irony that "Mr Don't Give a Fuck" is getting Bruno Mars and Rihanna on his choruses these days to get airplay. It's just sad. I've said it before but Em is one of few artists who can basically fart into a microphone and it will sell a million - Encore proved that. So why doesn't he use this to his advantage?? He could do literally anything. He doesn't need the money, i'm not being funny but i'm sure he has more than enough so that even if his album only went 1 time platinum, it wouldn't affect him at all. Instead he completely changes his image and music because fans bitch? This is coming from the guy who used to call his fans assholes?

Relapse was astounding. It was perfect, he was clearly enjoying himself. I don't like a few of the songs, but for the most part it remains probably my most listened to album after Em Show. Beautiful is shit, Underground is shit. Apart from that I pretty much love the whole album. Even We Made You was lyrically excellent. Whereas Recovery? At a push I still listen to only about 6 of the 17 songs on there. And the singles are the worst stuff Eminem's ever done. Yes, worse than Encore. I'd rather listen to Big Weenie than fuckin Not Afraid any day.

But yeah the problem with the Relapse thing is you can't just keep doing the same shit. If he had made it a proper story? Yeah, could be interesting, but I wouldn't wanna listen to another 20 songs about rape and sex. It would have to have a twist. Still, he probably could have pulled it off. He was obviously on a creative buzz when he made all the Relapse shit. Like EmBase says, if you make two whole albums worth of material you know you must be inspired. I mean he recorded half of Encore in one studio session, so obviously he wasn't inspired on that, he just hammered songs out, and we know the result.

I hate that he badmouths Relapse just to please fans, it's like anyone who is a real fan of Em would much rather hear Relapse than watch him croon with Rihanna in a wifebeater as though it's 2000 again. I don't even recall many people badmouthing Relapse, not here anyway. Plus Recovery feels like it's full of fake emotion, it's like on Relapse he barely shouts but it has more emotion than all the screaming that Recovery has. Half the shit he's rapping about on Recovery is bullshit i'm sorry; Cold Wind Blows is the most genuine song on there, after that it delves into fan-pleasing territory. Talkin 2 Myself is the "fine, here is a song about what I did when I was drugged", On Fire is a random "aggressive" song, Won't Back Down is just shit. I could go on.

[JasonOne99]

It's funny the irony that "Mr Don't Give a Fuck" is getting Bruno Mars and Rihanna on his choruses these days to get airplay. It's just sad.

Getting Bruno Mars on the track was actually Royces idea and I think the airplay was for him. Did you even read this thread? viewtopic.php?f=3&t=117076

I hate that he badmouths Relapse just to please fans,.

Have you heard Reunion?

And the singles are the worst stuff Eminem's ever done. Yes, worse than Encore. I'd rather listen to Big Weenie than fuckin Not Afraid any day.

C'mon son

[Asche]

edit: deleted

[Kez]

It's funny the irony that "Mr Don't Give a Fuck" is getting Bruno Mars and Rihanna on his choruses these days to get airplay. It's just sad.

Getting Bruno Mars on the track was actually Royces idea and I think the airplay was for him. Did you even read this thread? viewtopic.php?f=3&t=117076

I find it funny that you wanna make out I missed the thread. I don't miss shit on this site.

Even if you weasel your way out of the Bruno thing, there is no excusing the Rihanna collab or the buttlicking of Lady Gaga.

Have you heard Reunion?

No because i've been living in a FUCKING CAVE for the last month and, not being an Eminem fan (I mean why else be signed up on TRShady?), I did not bother to listen to the BME tape when it leaked. You fucking idiot, shut up. Rapping about it on your little project is all well and good, but badmouthing your last album on your lead single is entirely different. He knew every fucker would hear him say it on Not Afraid, and he chose to do it anyway.

:o C'mon son

Me personally, I can stomach stoned stupidity much easier than mainstream pandering. So yes, I still stand by my statement.

[EminemBase]

there is no excusing the Rihanna collab or the buttlicking of Lady Gaga.

I don't agree with the Rihanna thing.

Even though he obviously knew that Rihanna would make the track a hit and that was definitely part the reason she was on it, he found a way to make the collab mean something and made it artistic. Putting Rihanna on a song about domestic violence, on the chorus like that, was a great idea.

Was like performing with Elton in front of GLAAD. It's a contradiction /paradox. Lovely.

And, with the Lady GaGa thing, I think he just ass-licks anybody to shut press-up and stop focusing on his stupid celebrity puns. Which, is getting fucking tiring. Every other song you see papers running stories about how old his 'celeb dissing' is when it's just arbitrary wordplay, or stupid puns and he's using the name for the sake of a pop-culture resonance, and nothing more.

But, I don't care who he ass-licks as long as he doesn't work with them. Much more annoyed at him working with Lil Wayne on "No Love" than Rihanna on "Love the Way You Lie". Rihanna is a pop singer but so was Dido, but their collabs meant something / flipped the songs in an interesting way. Where as Wayne is just a hack.

I was reading reviews of Rebirth and all critics who cited Em's "Drop the World" verse as the only real highlight were all acting surprised he 'ran circles' around Wayne, and said he made Wayne sound ridiculous. And condemned his spurious babble lyrics. And they were acting like they could only just hear it...

I'm like, WTF is wrong with your brains. How can you not hear how terrible he is ANYWAY, why do you need a pretentious, clueless, confused, rap-rock attempt to highlight it or even highlight how TERRIBLE his fucking flow and lyricism is, even compared to a bad Emniem lmao. It's blindingly fucking apparent constantly, to anybody with any taste or standards.

[Kez]

Even though he obviously knew that Rihanna would make the track a hit and that was definitely part the reason she was on it, he found a way to make the collab mean something and made it artistic. Putting Rihanna on a song about domestic violence, on the chorus like that, was a great idea.

Yeah but that doesn't change the fact that he put her on it at least partially because he knew she would make it sell. Music shouldn't be about sales, especially not when you in Em's position and one of the world's richest. That's just what I feel. That and the fact that Rihanna is Godawful. She's no more talented than Wayne,

Was like performing with Elton in front of GLAAD. It's a contradiction /paradox. Lovely.

Except he didn't do that because it would make him money. It was a matter of principles and morals. It meant something. Everything Rihanna does, to my eyes, is manufactured garbage and is purely financial.

And, with the Lady GaGa thing, I think he just ass-licks anybody to shut press-up and stop focusing on his stupid celebrity puns. Which, is getting fucking tiring. Every other song you see papers running stories about how old his 'celeb dissing' is when it's just arbitrary wordplay, or stupid puns and he's using the name for the sake of a pop-culture resonance, and nothing more.

To be honest it defeats the point of him reverting back to dissin celebrities if he's just gonna turn around and be like "yeah lol I didnt mean it shes dope", "what specificially is dope about her Em", "erm.."

And yes I agree that Wayne is abysmal.

[Kez]

Yeah but that doesn't change the fact that he put her on it at least partially because he knew she would make it sell. Music shouldn't be about sales, especially not when you in Em's position and one of the world's richest. That's just what I feel. That and the fact that Rihanna is Godawful. She's no more talented than Wayne,

Because like EmBase has already said, she was put on there for a reason. You think that if Rihanna hadn't had the Chris Brown incident, he STILL would've had her on the track? Fuck no, he probably would've stuck with Skylar in that case.

It just so happens that a relevant artist was also openly involved in a domestically violent relationship and since she has already had her affiliations with Hip Hop - Jay, Kanye - then it would make sense to put her on the track.

I really think you have a romanticised view of Em. Is it not at all feasible in your mind to think that he put her on it just because she's like one of the world's biggest female stars? Or shall we start making up reasons Jay-Z stuck her on Run This Town? It's clear Em is still his label's bitch at the end of the day, having to pretend to think GaGa is "dope" just cause she's signed to Jimmy. I bet he hasn't listened to even one of her songs lmao. More power to him for it i'm just saying.

I'm sorry but the fact that she got smacked the fuck up by Chris Brown does not make her an introspective artist who suddenly deserves to stand next to Eminem. There is no depth to her side of Love The Way You Lie, at all. It sounds like yet another random pop love song, because that's what it is.

[Chet Starr]

Imagine how awesome love the way you lie would of been with Tina Turner instead.