EminemBase vs. Blu - God

[BigBoss]

I still recall the dayyy..i saw a gangster cry...

[JohnnyRottenSeed]

you talk about "logical probability"

whats the "logical probability"... that rock formations that came from nowhere.. would form together in "space" whatever that is... to spontaneous produce living things.. that have evolutionary goals.. developing billions of years.. eventually making computers and shadyforums

u got a better chance of jumping to mars eminem base.. u can't talk about crazy macro phenomenon like space.time.and life and mention "logical probability"

Some things are unexplainable but the randomness of nature is definitely a more logical idea than a magical being doing those same things.

ur rephrasing it as "magical being" might as well call it "magical nature" too..

blackholes "bend space and time" - no one can conceptualize what bending "space and time" entails

dark matter is presumed to constitute 83% of the universe- dark matter is a undetermined type of matter- that sometimes has a negative mass (impossible)

[EminemBase]

=whats the "logical probability"... that rock formations that came from nowhere.. would form together in "space" whatever that is... to spontaneous produce living things.. that have evolutionary goals.. developing billions of years.. eventually making computers and shadyforums

You not understanding it, doesn't mean it doesn't make sense.

Do you truly understand the Big Bang theory? or do you just know the vague concept, are you actually aware of any of the data or studies or thoughts in the field? honestly?... as, with Science, this DOES matter. So in reality, you're scoffing at something you know almost nothing about.

As for the 'spontaneous' production of life, this makes it sound like it was instant. Just like the evolution of life is gradual and the evolution of anything complex HAS to be gradual, the evolution of space and conditioning palatable for life would have been gradual. So it's not really spontaneous, it's, gradual and... as a result of lots of events, and lots of variables.

As for the probability of life arising itself, given the conditions needed for the most simple form of life... it's actually not as wild as you're suggesting. Consider how many potential galaxies and planets there are, consider how mind-blowingly expansive and gigantic the Universe is, consider how many gasses, liquids, particles etc. all exist within and of it... so, I wouldn't consider it highly unprobable for bacteria or single-celled life to arise in these circumstances.

We may not know the exact process or event that sparks life per say but we know how very very simple life went from that, to very complex life as we have now. So there's no reason no life could eventually equal simple life, it's just one step back, there has to be a beginning.

As for life having 'evolutionary goals' - evolution doesn't have a will or goal in mind. People often misconcieve evolution like it's a thing as in, they basically make the process of evolution another god in their mind and add intention and thought to it. If something works / passes on its genetic material, it survives... whatever does this the best - survives the best, and is dominant, and whatever doesn't survive... doesn't, so no longer exists, it dies out.

That's it. The only tangible 'goal' is to survive, by definition. And that's not really a goal, as most life isn't... conscious (as we determine it) of this reality. It just either does survive, or it doesn't, and then we're left with the result of success or the history, of failure. But over time of course, over billions of years... this shape-shifts the reality of life into an army of success machines, as we're now surrounded by successful, complex life, as only the winners, win.

This is what gives us the illusion of instantaneous or molded design.

So, I don't know what you're implying by probability when it comes to this process as, this is reality, this is what happens. Evolution is as proven as anything in modern science - DNA shows all life is related, we can also map the degrees of relation / separation in DNA and it correlates with what we know of the age of species. Then you have the fact every species on Earth is perfectly adapted to its environment and the fossil records correlate how they should too.

So, I'd say, very probable. Almost undeniably certain in fact.

You also then pertain to the complexity of us / computers as if that makes this process not have happened?... evolution explains how simple things evolve into complex things, over time. Now, this happening over BILLIONS of years is actually very logical, and very probable.

You've also seen the evolution of computers and technology with your own eyes. Did computers begin as complex as they are right now? no, we first came up with the bare bones concept of storing data and built from there. We make changes, we keep what works and forget what doesn't - this is exactly how evolution works and the reason we work like it, is because we're a product of it.

And when you think about it, ALL art, ALL technology and pretty much all human functioning works this way. We keep what works, throw away what doesn't. This is all an artist is ever trying to do as well. We think like evolution, because we evolved, we're a product of evolution, not god.

Where as, religions or 'the god theory' often suggests this happened in DAYS or... an instance! and not only this, but by a creator who is, obviously, more complex (he'd have to be) than us / all of this, and who 'just existed' by him / her / itself, with no explanation.

Take all that into account and you make no sense at all. You're denouncing a well-proved reality and suggesting something highly probable and something we know, is improbable and crazy and implying what, that the fairytale, illogical, bat-shit-crazy, childish, wishful, illogical alternative is not?

[DeAngelo Bailey]

"You not understanding it, doesn't mean it doesn't make sense."

it still doesn't make sense

Science, this DOES matter. So in reality, you're scoffing at something you know almost nothing about.

not scoffing at science.. and science will be the first to admit they don't have any of the answers "who's scoffing at science?" and why do i know nothing about it?

"As for the 'spontaneous' production of life, this makes it sound like it was instant."

whether in an instant or not "spontaneous production of life, sounds ridiculous

If something works / passes on its genetic material, it survives... whatever does this the best - survives the best, and is dominant, and whatever doesn't survive... doesn't, so no longer exists, it dies out.

evolution is still goal oriented at survival.. why this is? no idea.. rocks don't care to cease to exist

We keep what works, throw away what doesn't. This is all an artist is ever trying to do as well. We think like evolution, because we evolved, we're a product of evolution, not god."

humans can be anything in a lifetime, whether its lizardman, a sadomasochists, asexual, transgendered, risking their life for no reason, we do not work strictly with in this simple evolutionary formula

"Take all that into account and you make no sense at all. You're denouncing a well-proved reality" -

never denounced reality, im insulted

and suggesting something highly probable and something we know, is improbable and crazy and implying what, that the fairytale, illogical, bat-shit-crazy, childish, wishful, illogical alternative is not?"

never suggested this either


tell me about black holes... bending space and time, how this is in concordance with any concept we could possibly grasp or understand

80 percent of the universe is made up of "dark matter" and we don't even know what it is/ we don't know what the most abundant matter in the universe is and some of this dark matter has a negative mass, which seems impossible

what about micromechanics and quarks that make up everything, yet are proven unpredictable, but some how make up this coherent world...

i'm not tryin to say god exists, i'm sayin you don't know god doesn't exist

[CrashBand]

EminemBase, what are your views on whether the world would be better off with religon or without religon? Regadless if god exists.

[Solace]

^This might be a stupid question but do you mean if people couldn't create the concept of religion or a higher power, or if everyone was an atheist?

[CrashBand]

All i mean is. Lets say that god doesnt exist (which is what i think is the case). Do you think the world would be better off as it is now OR without christianity, islam, judaism etc. (yeah i suppose if everyone was an athiest)

[Kill You]

Honestly, yes. The world would be better off. Wars start over religious differences sometimes. Hell, the terrorists who flew the plane into the Twin Towers did it because they thought they would be rewarded for it in the afterlife. Plus I believe people would be far more accepting of other people's race and sexual orientation if that were the case.

[CrashBand]

So you think the negatives by far outweigh the positives?

I do believe religion is a great tool for good things also, lets say charities, World Vision, Salvation Army etc. Christian charities that are positive for society.

Also I think a lot of religious people would argue that their religion plays a very positive spin on their lives.

[Solace]

All i mean is. Lets say that god doesnt exist (which is what i think is the case). Do you think the world would be better off as it is now OR without christianity, islam, judaism etc. (yeah i suppose if everyone was an athiest)

Then definitely the world would be so much better without religion. So much discrimination and hatred just because of that, arguments about God and what not. If everyone was an athiest, it would be a lot more peaceful.

[EG.]

Some people argue that religion leads people in the right direction, it makes them 'do the right thing' and makes them a good human being. However, we should always try to do that, not because religion says so. Then you're doing it for the wrong reasons imo.

Sorry for the random input xp

[CrashBand]

Then definitely the world would be so much better without religion. So much discrimination and hatred just because of that, arguments about God and what not. If everyone was an athiest, it would be a lot more peaceful.

yeah i'd like to think so too, if that's the case though, an athiest should be justified to lets say 'enlighten' religious people and try and convince them there is no god.
If a) god doesn't exsist
and b) the world would be a better place without religion, then surely as an athiest you should try and convince religious people that they are wrong and no god exists.

I find a lot of agnostic people or people that aren't very 'strong' athiests find it offensive if an athiest were trying to "shove their views down other peoples throats" and they say just let christian people keep believing as they are doing no harm.

[Solace]

But that's only assuming there is no god, but assuming a god did exist, and even if the world was better without a religion, we'd all be going to hell/not pleasing our creator if the atheists succeeded in convincing religious people that they are wrong and no god exists.

[Epidemik]

where are the cold hard facts that god exists?

[CrashBand]

But that's only assuming there is no god, but assuming a god did exist, and even if the world was better without a religion, we'd all be going to hell/not pleasing our creator if the atheists succeeded in convincing religious people that they are wrong and no god exists.

So its lucky no gods exist then