If you're atheist..

[Emadyville]

I honestly believe that no person who believes in any god/s, no matter the religion, has never thought that the idea of a god makes absolutely no sense. Disregarding people who are raised where their entire family and culture revolves around religion, because in those situations you only know about religion, and I feel may have no other thoughts because its in reality all you know.

[CrashBand]

^ Well not all people. A lot of people would never even think up the idea that it doesn't make sense and some people wouldn't comprehend it doesn't make sense. Summed up well in this quote though..

“It is absolutely safe to say that, if you meet somebody who claims not to believe in evolution, that person is either ignorant, stupid, or insane.”
― Richard Dawkins

[Doodlebug]

I grew up with hostility, emptiness and .... nothing but anger. And I don't see it so much as the this or that after you die - but the here and the now - and who you are, or can be.

Even if their is no heaven or afterlife - when people do as they may, because they want to - they shadow over the goodness inside of themselves, and evolve into walking darkness.

See with me - I want full control. I don't want good or bad or anything bending me - holding me and me living by its rules. But at the same time, I don't play games when someone steps to me.

It's a fine line - let people anger you, puppet your emotions > they win. Think the easy way out is robbing, and crime > it wins. Think that drugs and booze is a nice easy fog for you to hide in > they both win.

Me - I'm gonna win here. Step by step, I'm gonna pace it so I watch where I walk to - and keep in mind where I walked from.

If when I die there is nothing - then so be it, but I won't live my life along the lines of IF's. I do believe in the spirit, and in karma. But hey, that's just me...

My name - is what matters and the rep that goes w/ it. The here, the now.

[TripleNineThree]

I'm a Christian

I personally don't understand how there can be absolutely nothing after death and that we simply are a product of random evolution. Every cause has to have an effect, what caused the universe? People will point back to the big bang, what caused the big bang? I'm sure people can point back but eventually there had to be an effect that had no cause - which would be a Higher Power or God of some sort.

Also, scientifically the chances of random evolution forming beings as highly intelligent and conscious are illogical. "Dr. Harold Morowitz, former professor of biophysics at Yale University, estimated thatthe probability of the chance formation of the smallest, simplest form of living organismknown is 1 out of 10^340,000,000. One out of ten to the 340 millionth power isunimaginable odds. This large figure is a "1" followed by 340,000,000 zeroes. As you cansee, Morowitz' odds against even the simplest life evolving were infinitely more than1*10^50, making them impossible"

Also, the study of science proves that there was some type of intelligent design. Science relies on patterns in nature. Scientists are able to form laws based on equations that work out every time. How would a disorderly event (such as random evolution) form an orderly world? Also, how would life generate from non life?


EDIT: I was not raised a Christian. I was an atheist for the first 16 years of my life and I needed logical proof for the existence of God. I wasn't raised to believe in any type of deity.

[CrashBand]

I'm a Christian

I personally don't understand how there can be absolutely nothing after death and that we simply are a product of random evolution. Every cause has to have an effect, what caused the universe? People will point back to the big bang, what caused the big bang? I'm sure people can point back but eventually there had to be an effect that had no cause - which would be a Higher Power or God of some sort.

Um. You fully contradict yourself here. Why is God suddenly allowed to have no cause?

Also, the study of science proves that there was some type of intelligent design. Science relies on patterns in nature. Scientists are able to form laws based on equations that work out every time. How would a disorderly event (such as random evolution) form an orderly world? Also, how would life generate from non life?

No. The study of science does not prove there was some sort of intelligent design

[TripleNineThree]

Um. You fully contradict yourself here. Why is God suddenly allowed to have no cause?


-How did I contradict myself? As a Christian I believe that God is eternal, as in, he had no creation of Himself. He always has been, therefor, he had no cause. He just is.

Explain to me what started the universe? There has to be a cause to every effect but eventually there HAS to be a cause that always has been.

Also, explain to me how an orderly planet came out of disorder and explain to me the logic behind believing in evolution when you look at the probabilities of it happening even over billions of years?

EDIT: By the way, don't simply state "No, the study of science doesn't prove the existence of God." Back up your statement. If you're going to disagree with me explain why.

[mdemaz]

I'd like to believe a creator created the universe so it would solve all of our problems, but I'm not too confident with it is all, it's no big deal.

Call me an Agnostic hybrid or whatever.

I don't have a problem with religions and stuff, actually, I like the way they try to make sense of nonsense, but I just don't really agree with most of the stuff.

It's nothing that deserves a loss of sleep, just enjoy life.

[CrashBand]

How did I contradict myself? As a Christian I believe that God is eternal, as in, he had no creation of Himself. He always has been, therefor, he had no cause. He just is.

Explain to me what started the universe? There has to be a cause to every effect but eventually there HAS to be a cause that always has been.

Also, explain to me how an orderly planet came out of disorder and explain to me the logic behind believing in evolution when you look at the probabilities of it happening even over billions of years?

hmmm the logic behind believing in evolution..... perhaps the overwhelming evidence that proves evolution as a fact

By the way, don't simply state "No, the study of science doesn't prove the existence of God." Back up your statement. If you're going to disagree with me explain why.

and no fuck off. you said science proves intelligent design (which it doesn't you retard) and therefore have to back this up.

[cityfan31]

I'm a Christian

I personally don't understand how there can be absolutely nothing after death and that we simply are a product of random evolution. Every cause has to have an effect, what caused the universe? People will point back to the big bang, what caused the big bang? I'm sure people can point back but eventually there had to be an effect that had no cause - which would be a Higher Power or God of some sort.

No. It is not necessary for there to be a 'cause' for the big bang. Particles pop in and out of existence all the time in quantam physics - it is commonplace. Secondly, adding God into the equation answers nothing. What made God? You get an infinite regress.

Also, scientifically the chances of random evolution forming beings as highly intelligent and conscious are illogical. "Dr. Harold Morowitz, former professor of biophysics at Yale University, estimated thatthe probability of the chance formation of the smallest, simplest form of living organismknown is 1 out of 10^340,000,000. One out of ten to the 340 millionth power isunimaginable odds. This large figure is a "1" followed by 340,000,000 zeroes. As you cansee, Morowitz' odds against even the simplest life evolving were infinitely more than1*10^50, making them impossible"

The universe is old and very very big. And just because something is unlikely does not make it false. What is most unlikely is that there is a supernatural being in charge of everything because there is absolutely no evidence for that, whatsoever. Science at least has come up with a reasonable and explanatory process for how mankind evolved.

Also, the study of science proves that there was some type of intelligent design. Science relies on patterns in nature. Scientists are able to form laws based on equations that work out every time. How would a disorderly event (such as random evolution) form an orderly world? Also, how would life generate from non life?


EDIT: I was not raised a Christian. I was an atheist for the first 16 years of my life and I needed logical proof for the existence of God. I wasn't raised to believe in any type of deity.

The study of science disproves Intelligent Design, over and over again. 99.99999 % of the universe is completely inhospitable to life. Most of our own planet is inhospitable to life. 99.9% of the worlds organisms that have ever existed have died out.

Some design.

In any case, everything that you have (poorly) argued is in favour of the deist position - that there is a supernatural being who began the universe. You still have all your work to do to prove that this being interferes with the world, listens to our prayers, watches us while we sleep and cares about us.

[UofLCard]

Not to offend anybody, but if there's a God, he/she's doing an awful job. So many natural disasters, diseases, famine, and murders.

[Emadyville]

^ Well not all people. A lot of people would never even think up the idea that it doesn't make sense and some people wouldn't comprehend it doesn't make sense. Summed up well in this quote though..

“It is absolutely safe to say that, if you meet somebody who claims not to believe in evolution, that person is either ignorant, stupid, or insane.”
― Richard Dawkins

I actually really like that quote, thanks for sharing it

[cityfan31]

Not to offend anybody, but if there's a God, he/she's doing an awful job. So many natural disasters, diseases, famine, and murders.

Assuming God does exist, it wouldn't be Him performing acts like murder and other conscious human decisions. The power of free will is in our hands and it's up to us to use it how we can, sometimes negatively.

And really? If there is a superior being that created us, then we have to live in a picture perfect world where things like natural disasters, disease and famine don't occur? It's how things evolve and how the world shifts, they're all necessary.

If God is omnipotent he has the power to create the world in any way he likes.

If he is benevolent he would create the world in a way that makes our lives as fulfilling and comforting as possible.

Making people die horrible deaths of disease and natural disasters means that either he is an all-powerful, yet callous god. Or he is a loving, yet impotent god. I don't know what is worse.

Or, there is no God, which makes the most sense.

[Eedee]

But, religion isn't for everyone just as the theory of Evolution isn't for anyone.

Yes, but evolution is true whether or not people "believe" in it. Religion, however, and the doctrines they so vehemently teach, have no basis in this day and age.

[Eedee]

But, religion isn't for everyone just as the theory of Evolution isn't for anyone.

Yes, but evolution is true whether or not people "believe" in it. Religion, however, and the doctrines they so vehemently teach, have no basis in this day and age.

Uh, what? That's completely wrong.

Yes, there are metaphorical depictions in religion that are not very relevant and/or assisting in this day and age, but there are plenty of accurate references, fulfilled prophetic predictions and concise (albeit dumbed down due to it being written centuries ago) explanations to the world and universe.

For every "feel good" passages, or fulfilled predictions from religion, there are hundreds of retrogression on humanity solely due from religious influence.

And "basis" was a bad word choice, I really meant: "... have no place in this day and age."

[cityfan31]

I think it's cute how you're telling me how a god would behave, you must of higher intelligence

Again, "making" people die? The natural progression of bacteria and viruses is just the way the world works. So let's assume nothing ever suffered death by things like starvation and disease, we'd have an over-populated Earth (as if it isn't already).

If you see a fly get caught in a spider's web, you don't save it's life. Everything affects everything in some way, so if God was to hypothetically save us from every potential fatal incident, the whole basis of a natural world goes to shit.

What puzzles me the most is the fact that people either think it has to be GOD and CREATIONISM vs. EVOLUTION...when the combination of God and Evolution would compliment each other very well. Really, you think if a being capable of creating the universe, every single atom, planet and galaxy would think to himself, "Hmm...I'm gonna make this entire universe but completely leave out the logistics of natural adaptability"...if humans are capable of constructing machinery intended to assist us in adapting to our environments, then an higher being most definitely would as well. I personally feel like the combination of Evolution being a bi-product of a higher being's ingenuity makes the most sense.

But, religion isn't for everyone just as the theory of Evolution isn't for anyone.

I'm actually using the Christian definition of God, as provided in the bible and therefore only telling you what Christians necessarily have to admit about their God, if he existed, which he doesn't.

You can't describe God as all-powerful and then claim that he couldn't make the world any way he want. You can't describe him as the most loving being and then claim that all the suffering HE CREATED is just a by-product of the world.

Don't create viruses and people don't die of HIV. Don't create floods and earthquakes and people don't drown or get crushed to death. Don't make children die in infancy...and children don't die in infancy. It's really very simple to do this if you are all-powerful and presumably you would want to if you are all-loving.

"the theory of evolution isn't for anyone" - lets not forget the religious take on evolution: up until about 10 years ago, fossils were 'placed there by god as a test'. When evolution became almost indubitable, the religious changed their stance and had the audacity to claim evolution as evidence of god! Incredible.

You can claim evolution was 'started by God' but it all works fine without that needless and evidence-free assumption. That's the beauty of the process -it removes any need for any God whatsoever.

As for your claim about fulfillment of prophecies, any examples? The Bible claims the world was created in 7 days and is roughly 6000 years old. There's my first example of the absolute bollocks that is put forward as 'the word of god' in that man-made fairytale book. Your turn.