If you're atheist..

[CrashBand]

I think it's cute how you're telling me how a god would behave, you must of higher intelligence

Again, "making" people die? The natural progression of bacteria and viruses is just the way the world works. So let's assume nothing ever suffered death by things like starvation and disease, we'd have an over-populated Earth (as if it isn't already).

If you see a fly get caught in a spider's web, you don't save it's life. Everything affects everything in some way, so if God was to hypothetically save us from every potential fatal incident, the whole basis of a natural world goes to shit.

What puzzles me the most is the fact that people either think it has to be GOD and CREATIONISM vs. EVOLUTION...when the combination of God and Evolution would compliment each other very well. Really, you think if a being capable of creating the universe, every single atom, planet and galaxy would think to himself, "Hmm...I'm gonna make this entire universe but completely leave out the logistics of natural adaptability"...if humans are capable of constructing machinery intended to assist us in adapting to our environments, then an higher being most definitely would as well. I personally feel like the combination of Evolution being a bi-product of a higher being's ingenuity makes the most sense.

But, religion isn't for everyone just as the theory of Evolution isn't for anyone.

Menzo, you're an absolute good cunt. but your stance on god is wrong

[εncørε]

and you believe that there's no god or afterlife..

Then what the fuck do you think happens?

Eternal sleep?

Dreaming like mind state?


Or something else?


I'm personally Agnostic.

When you die, you decompose. Your flesh rots and stuff. I don't see why people think there's any more to it than that. Do they think that their life is sooo important? That they must live forever outside of their body, despite the fact that everything that is you - your thoughts, personality, memories - are all in your mind? My theory? Theists don't want to admit they'll be decomposing in a few decades. They like to think there is something bigger and better that makes life worth it. But in the end, every human is insignificant. Life is a side effect of the universe, a result of billions of years of development. The human race is ruled by the delusion that humans have significance, but they'll be gone before you know it, without an impact on the universe.

[Guess_Who]

When you die, you decompose. Your flesh rots and stuff. I don't see why people think there's any more to it than that. Do they think that their life is sooo important?

Because for most of the people is easier to live thinking there will be something after death.
I am respectful with this subject. I was brought up to believe in religion. But at some point I guess religion made not much sense on my mind. I'm still respectful with this subject ,I lost important people in my life, it would be easier for me to believe that they are in a better place. But I just don't know...I confess that many things related with this , like ouija game and all that scare me so much...

[TripleNineThree]

I think it's cute how you're telling me how a god would behave, you must of higher intelligence

Again, "making" people die? The natural progression of bacteria and viruses is just the way the world works. So let's assume nothing ever suffered death by things like starvation and disease, we'd have an over-populated Earth (as if it isn't already).

If you see a fly get caught in a spider's web, you don't save it's life. Everything affects everything in some way, so if God was to hypothetically save us from every potential fatal incident, the whole basis of a natural world goes to shit.

What puzzles me the most is the fact that people either think it has to be GOD and CREATIONISM vs. EVOLUTION...when the combination of God and Evolution would compliment each other very well. Really, you think if a being capable of creating the universe, every single atom, planet and galaxy would think to himself, "Hmm...I'm gonna make this entire universe but completely leave out the logistics of natural adaptability"...if humans are capable of constructing machinery intended to assist us in adapting to our environments, then an higher being most definitely would as well. I personally feel like the combination of Evolution being a bi-product of a higher being's ingenuity makes the most sense.

But, religion isn't for everyone just as the theory of Evolution isn't for anyone.

I'm actually using the Christian definition of God, as provided in the bible and therefore only telling you what Christians necessarily have to admit about their God, if he existed, which he doesn't.

You can't describe God as all-powerful and then claim that he couldn't make the world any way he want. You can't describe him as the most loving being and then claim that all the suffering HE CREATED is just a by-product of the world.

Don't create viruses and people don't die of HIV. Don't create floods and earthquakes and people don't drown or get crushed to death. Don't make children die in infancy...and children don't die in infancy. It's really very simple to do this if you are all-powerful and presumably you would want to if you are all-loving.

"the theory of evolution isn't for anyone" - lets not forget the religious take on evolution: up until about 10 years ago, fossils were 'placed there by god as a test'. When evolution became almost indubitable, the religious changed their stance and had the audacity to claim evolution as evidence of god! Incredible.

You can claim evolution was 'started by God' but it all works fine without that needless and evidence-free assumption. That's the beauty of the process -it removes any need for any God whatsoever.

As for your claim about fulfillment of prophecies, any examples? The Bible claims the world was created in 7 days and is roughly 6000 years old. There's my first example of the absolute bollocks that is put forward as 'the word of god' in that man-made fairytale book. Your turn.

Fulfilled Prophecies
http://www.reasons.org/articles/article ... -the-bible

This is the most interesting in my opinion. This was written 400 years before Jesus or the idea of crucifixion ever existed.

Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.

4 Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression[a] and judgment he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished.[b]
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the Lord makes[c] his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered,
he will see the light of life[d] and be satisfied[e];
by his knowledge[f] my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,[g]
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,[h]
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors. - Isaiah 53

[Doodlebug]

When you die, you decompose. Your flesh rots and stuff. I don't see why people think there's any more to it than that. Do they think that their life is sooo important? .

It's not so much how you die that matters - as much as it is "how you live".

and > Let me believe in something, least my heart belong to .. nothing…

[TripleNineThree]

Not to offend anybody, but if there's a God, he/she's doing an awful job. So many natural disasters, diseases, famine, and murders.

Assuming God does exist, it wouldn't be Him performing acts like murder and other conscious human decisions. The power of free will is in our hands and it's up to us to use it how we can, sometimes negatively.

And really? If there is a superior being that created us, then we have to live in a picture perfect world where things like natural disasters, disease and famine don't occur? It's how things evolve and how the world shifts, they're all necessary.

If God is omnipotent he has the power to create the world in any way he likes.

If he is benevolent he would create the world in a way that makes our lives as fulfilling and comforting as possible.




Making people die horrible deaths of disease and natural disasters means that either he is an all-powerful, yet callous god. Or he is a loving, yet impotent god. I don't know what is worse.

Or, there is no God, which makes the most sense.

http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/black-or-white

[AbramIsaac]

I tend to think that if there is a god, he's sort of a bastard.

I tell him that from time to time. Then, I think if there is one, and he's so easily offended, then he's a bitch and I wouldn't want to spend eternity with him anyway.

Just my .02 though, take it with a pillar of salt.

[cityfan31]

http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/black-or-white

Provide me with another reasonable explanation and I'll reconsider my point of view. I'd be happy to do so.

Actually, the presence of evil / natural disasters is not the reason I don't believe in God. It's the complete lack of ANY evidence for any of the hundreds of man-made religions on offer.

[cityfan31]

Fulfilled Prophecies
http://www.reasons.org/articles/article ... -the-bible

This is the most interesting in my opinion. This was written 400 years before Jesus or the idea of crucifixion ever existed.

Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.

4 Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression[a] and judgment he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished.[b]
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the Lord makes[c] his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered,
he will see the light of life[d] and be satisfied[e];
by his knowledge[f] my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,[g]
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,[h]
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors. - Isaiah 53

I don't see any prophecies in here.

The idea of a resurrection and virgin birth was used by many many many religions before the bible. They all copied each other.

[JUMPDMC]

This pretty much sums it up for me.

[TripleNineThree]

@Cityfan

I want to give you this challenge. You don't need to actually post your answers on the site or post a reply, just send me a message in a PM.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... etter.html

[Eedee]

Just my .02 though, take it with a pillar of salt.

I see what you did there.

[classthe_king]

@Cityfan

I want to give you this challenge. You don't need to actually post your answers on the site or post a reply, just send me a message in a PM.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetic ... etter.html

Okay. Here is your chance to design a universe that is better than the one we live in. Many people claim that the poor design of our universe and/or God's involvement or lack thereof results in a universe that is unacceptable. In order to present a thorough model, please address all the following issues:

1. Will the beings you create be equal to you or less powerful?
Less powerful
2. What degree of free will will you allow to those beings?
The same free will that Jesus had
3. How will you prevent those beings from hurting you, each other and their creation?
I'll give them the same morality that Jesus had
4. What will you do with those beings who break your rules?
Punish them fairly
5. What laws of physics will you use?
The same laws we have now

Well that was hard

[Words]

What is it with theists and their obsession with death???
Every Atheist/Theist Conversation or debate I'm involved in, the theist involved always tries to bring it back to- "Well, what about your death?"
I try to stay focused in the here and now, my 1 life, because as an Atheist I "believe" that's all you get. I'd hate to spend so much of this life, wasting it on what might but probably will not happen after I die. I see that as an incredibly depressing view on life. If you spend your entire life living by the word of the bible, (which I see no proof of actually being true) instead of living your life and doing the things you actually want to do even if they don't fit in with the guidelines of morality in the bible, so you might get a chance to go to heaven, I see that as wasted time. It's incredibly sad to see people wasting their time on worrying about their plans for the afterlife.

Anyway, I do not "believe" that anything happens after you die. There's no magical garden in the sky where I will be re-united with my grandparents, nor any eternal hellfire where I can finally meet some cool people who fucking get it. There's just nothing. Howard Stern actually said something that I think sums up my view on the subject quite nicely:

"Here's what happens when you die-- you sit in a box for a long time and get eaten by worms. The End."

[Words]

Not saying that entirely, it does promote being a good person and that's fine. I'm just saying don't spend all your time thinking of the afterlife and nothing else. Live in the here and now, above any other life you think you'll be getting. I was kinda rushed when I wrote that comment so it probably didn't come out exactly the way I wanted it to sound.