Is Em still the only passable lyricist in the mainstream?

[flyingmonkey10]

Kid Cudi?

Mos Def?

[Accor]

I don't understand how you can say that. Aside from the singles, his lyrics on that were pretty much of a high quality. He didn't force (too many) jokes or any cheesy punchlines for the most part. He rhymed words that don't even rhyme due to the accent and it had very vivid storytelling and fantastic rhyme schemes at times.

If you're judging it solely on rhyme schemes it's great. But other than that, his flow, and the production/mixing, it's bad. It's very bad in every aspect of lyricism other than rhymes other than on a few songs. He took a huge step back lyrically with that album, he of all people should know that rhyming just to rhyme isn't impressive. Things like "catapult, at an adult", "masturbating to a hockey mask at a boxing match" etc. are laughable.

Plus the story telling isn't vivid, a lot of the time he's just listing random serial-killer like things. Deja Vu, My Mom, Must Be The Ganja (second verse) and Same Song and Dance (first verse) are impressive.

[Cube23]

I don't understand how you can say that. Aside from the singles, his lyrics on that were pretty much of a high quality. He didn't force (too many) jokes or any cheesy punchlines for the most part. He rhymed words that don't even rhyme due to the accent and it had very vivid storytelling and fantastic rhyme schemes at times.

If you're judging it solely on rhyme schemes it's great. But other than that, his flow, and the production/mixing, it's bad. It's very bad in every aspect of lyricism other than rhymes other than on a few songs. He took a huge step back lyrically with that album, he of all people should know that rhyming just to rhyme isn't impressive. Things like "catapult, at an adult", "masturbating to a hockey mask at a boxing match" etc. are laughable.

Plus the story telling isn't vivid, a lot of the time he's just listing random serial-killer like things. Deja Vu, My Mom, Must Be The Ganja (second verse) and Same Song and Dance (first verse) are impressive.

Third verse of Bagpipes From Baghdad and all of Stay Wide Awake are impressive, as well.

Your two examples of terrible lyricism was from the only non-single I disliked. Underground was terrible and rhyming to rhyme is just silly. I agree. But his lyrics were coherent on much of the album and the whole thing had a cinematic story feel to it. I had no problem with the production or lyrical content on it. I thought it was a nice step for Eminem and I thouroughly enjoy Relapse.

His delivery/accent, beats, and lyrics were perfectly fine to me.... which is why I have a massive problem with Recovery. Because all of those categories took an incredibly large step down from Relapse.

[Man1x]

Recovery & Hell: The Sequel get a bad rap (no pun intended) in general. They aren't as bad as they are made out to be. I mean they are not revolutionary like Eminem's first three albums and certainly not as good, but they are of higher quality than most albums (not all). That all being said, Eminem is not the best rapper doing it currently. In my opinion, it would Kendrick Lamar, but I'm sure that's where we all differ.

[Cube23]

Recovery & Hell: The Sequel get a bad rap (no pun intended) in general. They aren't as bad as they are made out to be. I mean they are not revolutionary like Eminem's first three albums and certainly not as good, but they are of higher quality than most albums (not all). That all being said, Eminem is not the best rapper doing it currently. In my opinion, it would Kendrick Lamar, but I'm sure that's where we all differ.

Eminem isn't in my top 25-30 rappers right now.. Maybe more.

But I'm sure that's where we all differ

[Accor]

Third verse of Bagpipes From Baghdad and all of Stay Wide Awake are impressive, as well.

Your two examples of terrible lyricism was from the only non-single I disliked. Underground was terrible and rhyming to rhyme is just silly. I agree. But his lyrics were coherent on much of the album and the whole thing had a cinematic story feel to it. I had no problem with the production or lyrical content on it. I thought it was a nice step for Eminem and I thouroughly enjoy Relapse.

His delivery/accent, beats, and lyrics were perfectly fine to me.... which is why I have a massive problem with Recovery. Because all of those categories took an incredibly large step down from Relapse.

Relapse had a lot of potential to be something great. Coming off of his hiatus, had something to prove, but he took a step back creatively and tried to be something he was in 2000. He tried rhyming is much as possible which took away from the actual lyrics most of the time, and he added an accent that ruins songs alone a lot of the time. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree here.

Recovery & Hell: The Sequel get a bad rap (no pun intended) in general. They aren't as bad as they are made out to be. I mean they are not revolutionary like Eminem's first three albums and certainly not as good, but they are of higher quality than most albums (not all). That all being said, Eminem is not the best rapper doing it currently. In my opinion, it would Kendrick Lamar, but I'm sure that's where we all differ.

You don't listen to much music if you think Recovery and HTS are better than most albums being released. That's just as bad as when people say that Encore is only a bad Eminem album and is still better than anything else being released.

[Cube23]

Kid Cudi?

Mos Def?

I'm not sure whether Mos Def is mainstream. I guess you could count him.

Kid Cudi is an interesting one. He is a better songwriter than Eminem at the moment, but his structuring and rhyming is weaker.

[Accor]

What are you talking about So the lines from "Underground", a song that had no real intentions besides senseless rhyming is enough to make such a decision? He didn't "rhyme just to rhyme" except realistically, on the aforementioned song.

The only flaw on Relapse was "Beautiful" because lyrically and delivery wise, it does not fit. Your initial complain was that Eminem has been inconsistent since 2003 but Relapse was far from inconsistent on every level.

Also, Recovery is not nearly as "un-lyrical" as you and others might think.

I just gave some of the more obvious examples. It's filled with things like that. You really think the only flaw in the album is Beautiful? And because it "doesn't fit"? Not because it's awful lyrically but in a different way then the other songs?

Also yes, it is. Recovery has some songs that are great lyrically but for the most part it's filler and songs littered with god awful punchlines. I can give a ton of examples since you seem to ignore them.

People also act as if H:TS was a sit down project where Em was up til 3am thinking of concepts and lines. That shit was whipped together over a few months for the fuck of it and the ones that we know they intentionally made for the EP were probably the best ones on the EP.

Eminem used to write better songs than anything on that EP in 30 minutes, that's not an excuse. The songs that were intended for the EP (A Kiss and Reunion I think?) aren't even good lyrically, they just have smooth passable flows.

[Sam.]

Honestly, as I said before...People become super critical when it's Em.

It's just what they do, they hate that he gets called the greatest, so whenever he drops an average/dope release they make it seem as if it's the weakest shit out there, even know they bump weaker shit and call it good music.
And hating new Em seems like the thing that would make you look cool in the internet, it's pathetic.

With great skill, comes great responsibility. People except dope shit all the time from Eminem, fans like me, that is. With every drop, comes comparison, which is inevitable.

[Cube23]

Eminem wouldn't get so much hate if he currently didn't release garbage while getting an extreme amount of praise for doing so. For everyone who bashes Eminem's new material, there are probably eight people that praise it. Eminem's critics hardly exist compared to his Stans. I know this because I loathe Lupe Fiasco for the very same reason.. He's not bad or anything, but his fans make an excuse or defend him when the music blows.

Eminem's songwriting is really bad right now, for whoever laughed at me for calling Kid Cudi a better songwriter.. Recovery was off the walls with it's content. Think about the transition of Cold Wind Blows to Talkin 2 Myself to On Fire, then 25 To Life to So Bad. It was just a random assortment of tracks, some good.. some not so much. There was literally nothing I took out of the album because he jumped from theme to theme. Poor songwriting. Kid Cudi's albums flow together and usually have a cinematic feeling that keeps you on the edge of your seat.

[Cube23]

I'll agree, the overall sound of Recovery isn't as transitionally cohesive as any of his previous projects but that doesn't come down to his song writing. I'd be much more understanding if it were all of his or Dre's production and it felt off the wall. Granted at the end of it all, it was up to him to put together a collective group of instrumentals that complimented each other well.

I rather enjoy his back and forth type of tracks on Recovery though, one moment it's intense and inexplicably vulgar and then next it's serious and heartfelt...it's as if recovering is as unstable and steady as his track order. That's definitely something I made up for my own sake though.

But to call his previous album garbage? I can never agree, I think the only garbage he's put out now is Encore. And until something is that bad, disregarding the listener's preferences or not, then it's still head and neck above garbage.

I wasn't really attempting to call Recovery garbage, even though he took a huge step back in his creative process and watered down his music to an extent I didn't think was possible with Eminem. It is better than Encore and you are right, Encore is trash.

I was mostly calling every other song he's been on since then garbage. I dig a few tracks on Recovery.. mostly On Fire, Cold Wind Blows, and Going Through Changes.

[Accor]

Are you blind or just ignorant? I said "Beautiful" didn't fit because of its lyrical strength and delivery. Conceptually, it does essentially fit the album's storyline.

Who is denying a handful of corny punchlines? What does the point of being a "filler" have to do with this either? We're talking about lyricism, and Em is still sharp on Recovery although not as evident as he was on Relapse.

You complained that on Relapse, he rhymed and sacrificed his message meanwhile when Em focuses on his message more, you complain about the rhyming. Sounds like your typical forever unhappy Eminem fan to me.



Eminem also used to produce albums better than he does now, but both occurred his fuckin prime. Also, "A Kiss" is pretty lyrical if you take the time to listen, especially since it is back and forth so a lot of his rhyme schemes are dependent on Royce's previous one (and vice versa). "The Reunion" isn't that good lyrically, but it's not bad...why are you fuckin complaining about his lyricism on that song? Was he spitting 7 syllables on fuckin "Stan"? His delivery and flow are smooth as fuck, as you said, so what's your deal? He spit with the same flow and tranquility during the 2011 BET Cypher AND rhymed a plethora of syllables throughout...

But there's bound to be a complaint somewhere, so go ahead, continue to feed my curiosity regarding the depths of asshole you dip your arm in to pull out another complaint.

First, when you were talking about Beautiful not fitting, I assumed you weren't strictly talking about the rhymes when you said lyrically it doesn't fit.

It isn't just a "handful" of "corny" punchlines. The album is FILLED with AWFUL punchlines and bad lyricism all together. I was point out the filler tracks like So Bad because they are mediocre songs lyrically. When complaining about the lyricism on Recovery, I'm not complaining about the rhymes because that's one of the least important parts of lyricism to me.

Again, you assume when talking about lyricism I'm strictly talking about rhymes schemes. I don't give a shit about the rhyme schemes. You're really trying to justify the lyricism on Reunion because Stan didn't have a bunch of multies? Jesus.

Lyricism is more than rhyme schemes, apparently you don't know that though.

[Fleka]

Em is the only one that can say "Fuck MTV, Fuck the Grammys, fuck..." and still get to perform there and be the biggest act.

Not even gonna go in this lyricism debate, it`s pointless. Em fans can be real stupid, but his haters take that stupidity to a whole other level.

[CrashBand]

Not even gonna go in this lyricism debate, it`s pointless. Em fans can be real stupid, but his haters take that stupidity to a whole other level.

not quite.

I would say the average ignorant Eminem fan would be a lot more stupid than an average 'hater'

[Elision]

k.