Eminem is above rap's expectations?

[King Lance]

the first album I bought was The Marshall Mathers LP, I was 12 and I didn't even know who eminem was, thought it was a black man and still, it was the best album I had ever heard at that time (that's why it was the only original album I owed in 2 years) =p

I was shocked when I heard it was a white man and it took me weeks before buying TES coz I couldn't imagine listening to a white(and blond) boy rapping even if I'm white.

[EminemBase]

Dude, even Eminem disagrees with you

"Let's do the math, if I was black I would have sold half"

So what. I disagree with Em.

Em's entitled to his own opinion about himself too, doesn't mean he's right.

But arguing that Em being white didn't make him sell more is just.....wrong

Why does him being white make him sell more.

Who primarily bought his music, kids right?

I WAS one of those kids and so were my friends, none of us even talked about the fact he was white, and we all listened to 2Pac, and Dr. Dre and shit too, it had nothing to do with it.

His skin colour is a talking point, but it doesn't make you want to buy his record. It made him more FAMOUS, I agree on that, but people don't buy your record just if you're known more, there has to be something there. There's been plenty examples of that recently, people with huge buzzes and yet tiny sales, Em's music is what drove those sales.

I'll even say that, okay maybe initially, maybe upon the "there's this new white rapper" theme during his first few years people wanted to see if the hype was real, but I don't believe on any other level than that. And that shit doesn't last, once people make their minds up and the Internet spreads shit, that point isn't really valid. Em still sells huge to this day, it ain't cause he's white.

As I say, maybe initially but, The Marshall Mathers LP wasn't being so talked about, and didn't do what it did because he's white. What was being intensely discussed, debated and blown-up and what made that record sell and him a Goliath was his LYRICS, and his content.

[classthe_king]

Yes it was his lyrics but his lyrics blew up like that because he was white. Him being white moved rap into the suburbs and white kids were able to relate to him more than any rapper before. That's why he sold so much. Yes, he couldn't have done it without the talent but he also couldn't have done it if he was black.

[EminemBase]

Yes it was his lyrics but his lyrics blew up like that because he was white. Him being white moved rap into the suburbs and white kids were able to relate to him more than any rapper before. That's why he sold so much. Yes, he couldn't have done it without the talent but he also couldn't have done it if he was black.

No his lyrics blew up like that because of, the lyrics.

If the lyrics weren't THAT, if he wasn't insanely talented... him being white would not having anything to shine light on. Him being white is a novelty, a talking point, it doesn't result in a career.

And that's definitely not why he sold so much. And yes he would have done it if black, in terms of emotional resonance, Em referred to himself as White Pac for a reason, and 2Pac did massive numbers too. If anything, beyond his creativity and originality, it's emotional resonance. It's intensity and his delivery and connecting on that level, like 2Pac did. And do you think 2Pac sold 75 million records to just black fans? no, black rappers were resonating with white youth before Em.

And that's there with or without him being white. Dre said he didn't even know Em was white, and yet he wanted to fly him over to sign him? Dre wasn't knocked off his chair by Em being white, Dre was knocked back by the talent, and so was the world. In America, race may still be a talking point, but don't forget; Em is a global icon. Em being white in the UK doesn't mean shit, that's more of an American discussion, Em is gigantic here too, and absolutely zero to do with him being white.

We'll just have to disagree on that one.

[King Lance]

Yes it was his lyrics but his lyrics blew up like that because he was white. Him being white moved rap into the suburbs and white kids were able to relate to him more than any rapper before. That's why he sold so much. Yes, he couldn't have done it without the talent but he also couldn't have done it if he was black.

No his lyrics blew up like that because of, the lyrics.

If the lyrics weren't THAT, if he wasn't insanely talented... him being white would not having anything to shine light on. Him being white is a novelty, a talking point, it doesn't result in a career.

And that's definitely not why he sold so much. And yes he would have done it if black, in terms of emotional resonance, Em referred to himself as White Pac for a reason, and 2Pac did massive numbers too. If anything, beyond his creativity and originality, it's emotional resonance. It's intensity and his delivery and connecting on that level, like 2Pac did.

And that's there with or without him being white. Dre said he didn't even know Em was white, and yet he wanted to fly him over to sign him? Dre wasn't knocked off his chair by Em being white, Dre was knocked back by the talent, and so was the world. In America, race may still be a talking point, but don't forget; Em is a global icon. Em being white in the UK doesn't mean shit, that's more of an American discussion, Em is gigantic here too, and absolutely zero to do with him being white.

We'll just have to disagree on that one.

all my friends thought he was black when we bought tmmlp

I was shocked when I heard it was a white guy, couldn't even listen to him for weeks coz it was impossible for me to combine his AMAZING music with that image of a white rapper with blond hair lol.

[classthe_king]

Yes we'll just have to disagree. If Em was black he very well likely have blown up to the same level but he wouldn't have done it the same way. His subject material would have been completely different and his style would have been different.

Also talent alone doesn't lead to blowing up either. There have been more talented rappers than Eminem that haven't got nearly the recognition, but that's a debate for another day.

[King Lance]

Yes we'll just have to disagree. If Em was black he very well likely have blown up to the same level but he wouldn't have done it the same way. His subject material would have been completely different and his style would have been different.

Also talent alone doesn't lead to blowing up either. There have been more talented rappers than Eminem that haven't got nearly the recognition, but that's a debate for another day.

"If Em was black he very well likely have blown up to the same level but he wouldn't have done it the same way. His subject material would have been completely different and his style would have been different."
agree but it's part of his music, if tupac wasn't black, he wouldn't have done it the same way either same for a lot of black rappers imo. (could give 10000 examples but let's talk about 50 cent with get rich or die tryin, the album was extremely well written and produced, the man got shot and I think it gave him legitimity as a gangsta-rapper but what if it didn't happen ? I'm sure he would not have sold that much)

maybe it helped Eminem to be white even if I don't think so but on the other hand, being white was also an obstacle at that time

Eminem was hated by a lot of ppl just because of his skin color.
While it was normal for white ppl(hip hop fans ofc) to buy albums from black rappers, I'm sure it was a shame for black ppl to buy albums from white rappers :x
At the end, I'm sure eminem would have sold the same amounts of CD's(and maybe even more) if the man was black.

[EminemBase]

maybe it helped Eminem to be white even if I don't think so but on the other hand, being white was also an obstacle at that time

Another good point. Like I say, nobody ever justifies why being white would have a positive affect on sales, so what he stands out, so does Yelawolf with his mullet and so did 2Pac with his voice... the only motto at the time was 'white rappers suck major fucking ass' (due to V-Ice). So in effect, Em's talent had to be extra special to overcome that consensus and convince people to even listen.

If Em was shit, the consensus would remain, if he was average or even just good, the hype would not sustain; not only did it not sustain but it went overboard, because his talent was overboard. Being white in a sea of black sparked a conversation, but it didn't win any debates.

And Em still sells to this day. And him being white isn't a big thing today, and if people say it is; why isn't Yela gigantic, or MGK? or every other white rapper who's come along, or bigger than they should be, none of them are. So then if you do concede being white isn't a big deal now, what's making Em still sell huge now, a racist herd of fans from 2000?

It's his music now, and it was his music then.

Does being black help Tiger Woods win tournaments...

[classthe_king]

maybe it helped Eminem to be white even if I don't think so but on the other hand, being white was also an obstacle at that time

Eminem was hated by a lot of ppl just because of his skin color.
While it was normal for white ppl(hip hop fans ofc) to buy albums from black rappers, I'm sure it was a shame for black ppl to buy albums from white rappers :x
At the end, I'm sure eminem would have sold the same amounts of CD's(and maybe even more) if the man was black.

It was an obstacle at first but after he was already signed it was absolutely not an obstacle.

And no lol, the number of white suburban fans who bought his album because he was white far surpasses the number of black people who didn't buy his album because he was white. Come on people.

[classthe_king]

maybe it helped Eminem to be white even if I don't think so but on the other hand, being white was also an obstacle at that time

Another good point. Like I say, nobody ever justifies why being white would have a positive affect on sales, so what he stands out, so does Yelawolf with his mullet and so did 2Pac with his voice... the only motto at the time was 'white rappers suck major fucking ass' (due to V-Ice). So in effect, Em's talent had to be extra special to overcome that consensus and convince people to even listen.

Yes, in the beginning but once he broke through and got signed it wasn't an obstacle anymore

If Em was shit, the consensus would remain, if he was average or even just good, the hype would not sustain; not only did it not sustain but it went overboard, because his talent was overboard. Being white in a sea of black sparked a conversation, but it didn't win any debates.

And I said that the talent also played an equal part. This was an irrelevant point.

And Em still sells to this day. And him being white isn't a big thing today, and if people say it is; why isn't Yela gigantic, or MGK? or every other white rapper who's come along, or bigger than they should be, none of them are. So then if you do concede being white isn't a big deal now, what's making Em still sell huge now, a racist herd of fans from 2000?

It was never because he was only white Yela and MGK don't sell as much because they suck. And Eminem sells now because of his name, not his music because his music is garbage.

Does being black help Tiger Woods win tournaments...

Did you just compare sports to rap sales -__-

[EminemBase]

maybe it helped Eminem to be white even if I don't think so but on the other hand, being white was also an obstacle at that time

Eminem was hated by a lot of ppl just because of his skin color.
While it was normal for white ppl(hip hop fans ofc) to buy albums from black rappers, I'm sure it was a shame for black ppl to buy albums from white rappers :x
At the end, I'm sure eminem would have sold the same amounts of CD's(and maybe even more) if the man was black.

It was an obstacle at first but after he was already signed it was absolutely not an obstacle.

And no lol, the number of white suburban fans who bought his album because he was white far surpasses the number of black people who didn't buy his album because he was white. Come on people.

I don't even know what that means lmao?

Buying his album because he was white who the fuck buys music based on race. I know of nobody and never have known a single person who has ever done that, and you have no proof of that, and it makes no sense.

People of all races bought his album because his music resonated. More people may have been aware of him because he was white, buy they bought the album because of the music.

[King Lance]

maybe it helped Eminem to be white even if I don't think so but on the other hand, being white was also an obstacle at that time

Another good point. Like I say, nobody ever justifies why being white would have a positive affect on sales, so what he stands out, so does Yelawolf with his mullet and so did 2Pac with his voice... the only motto at the time was 'white rappers suck major fucking ass' (due to V-Ice). So in effect, Em's talent had to be extra special to overcome that consensus and convince people to even listen.

If Em was shit, the consensus would remain, if he was average or even just good, the hype would not sustain; not only did it not sustain but it went overboard, because his talent was overboard. Being white in a sea of black sparked a conversation, but it didn't win any debates.

And Em still sells to this day. And him being white isn't a big thing today, and if people say it is; why isn't Yela gigantic, or MGK? or every other white rapper who's come along, or bigger than they should be, none of them are. So then if you do concede being white isn't a big deal now, what's making Em still sell huge now, a racist herd of fans from 2000?

It's his music now, and it was his music then.

Does being black help Tiger Woods win tournaments...

completely agree

I remember his concerts in 2000/2001, Most of the crowd was white, it was impossible to find a single black person in the first rows (in belgium and france).
For jay-z or other artists, there were many black fans but also white fans so let's say that Eminem had to face important obstacles in his career

btw, a lot of ppl compare sports to rap, here is a known quote from C.R " You know the world is going crazy when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy"

And ppl don't buy mac miller's albums or yela's albums because they are white
Yela is/was Em's protegé, it didn't help him at all

[classthe_king]

I don't even know what that means lmao?

Buying his album because he was white who the fuck buys music based on race. I know of nobody and never have known a single person who has ever done that, and you have no proof of that, and it makes no sense.

People of all races bought his album because his music resonated. More people may have been aware of him because he was white, buy they bought the album because of the music.

Can you not remember what I say from one post to the next? I obviously didn't mean that they bought his album only because he was white.

Yes it was his lyrics but his lyrics blew up like that because he was white. Him being white moved rap into the suburbs and white kids were able to relate to him more than any rapper before. That's why he sold so much. Yes, he couldn't have done it without the talent but he also couldn't have done it if he was black.

[Mitchell3K]

Why do people act like rap never mattered to white people in the suburbs before Eminem??

I'm white, I'm from the suburbs and I grew up listening to hip hop just like everybody else in my neighborhood, I got Snoop Dogg's first album for christmas when I was 8, I use to wear the Wu Tang clothing line Wu Wear and all that shit.

I guess maybe if you live in fucking Montana or Idaho or summin maybe Eminem introduced hip hop to you but I grew up around hip hop.

[StatQuo]

Well let's look at it logically Eminem is the only white rap artist solo wise that has ever managed to consistantly sell multi platinum. Other solo white rappers can't even manage to barley sell Gold let alone multi platinum or further more diamond that is somethin they can only do in their wildest dream. All the succesful selling rappers aside from Eminem have been black typically it's black rap artists that sell. Eminem sold because he made hits for days and made music people liked and he had females buy his records cos they thought he was handsome, sexy, attractive whatever you wanna call it.