Why Jay-Z is the best MC of all time.

[Accor]

It's cool if he thinks Eminem was better on the song, but by no means was Jay "ethered". I'm not saying Jay destroyed Eminem I'm just saying Jay's second verse is the best on the song imo. I think overall they were pretty even though.

[12characters]

Google's too mainstream tbh.

It's cool if he thinks Eminem was better on the song, but by no means was Jay "ethered". I'm not saying Jay destroyed Eminem I'm just saying Jay's second verse is the best on the song imo. I think overall they were pretty even though.

I'm not sure if I'd say "ethered", but I think Em was the clear winner.

[classthe_king]

I think overall the two verses were pretty even. Of course certain people are going to lean one way or the other depending on what aspects of lyricism they think is more important.

[Accor]

I've never seen anyone actually explain how Eminem's verses were better than Jay's

Actually Embase had this long ass post as to why they were better. I would link you to it but the search function is still fucked up.

Just Google it you will get an answer lol.. Plus Jay heard Em's verse first than recorded and EM out shined Jay...its like seeing someones cards in Poker first...how do you lose?

lol this is the first and only one I could find that wasn't lyrics to Ether
http://rapgenius.com/posts/Jay-z-eminem ... illed-whom

I agree with him when he says Eminem's lyrics are more straight forward and simple and Jay's take some unpacking. Eminem obviously rhymes better so it comes down to what you're more impressed by.

[Accor]

Accor but even Jay said it him self that EM out shined him.

Okay? So what? I disagree with him. And even so, that's not really what I'm arguing about. I'm saying that they were very close on that song and no one was ethered/destroyed/killed or whatever.

EDIT: just read some of the posts, people seem to discredit Jay here a lot, popularity or no popularity, Jay-Z is a top rapper, Reasonable Doubt, Black Album and Blueprint 1 are classics! Blueprint 2 is full of fillers and it's inconsistent, American Gangster was good, Blueprint 3 was better, Kingdome Come was dreadful (but so was Encore, well I like it, but generally I mean, Encore > KC), anyway, Jay-Z is not consistent, but neither is Em, that's a quality both lack, but that doesn't make them any less of great EMcees, Jay-Z should be in any debate about G.O.A.Ts, but Em >>*

bp3 over american gangster? :S Seems like people here don't appreciate that album for some reason

[12characters]

Google's too mainstream tbh.

You can find some real good info if you Google it but don't go to any random page that comes up.

Lol I was kidding. I'm just too lazy.

ol this is the first and only one I could find that wasn't lyrics to Ether
http://rapgenius.com/posts/Jay-z-eminem ... illed-whom

I agree with him when he says Eminem's lyrics are more straight forward and simple and Jay's take some unpacking. Eminem obviously rhymes better so it comes down to what you're more impressed by.

I saw that rap genius one, I never read it though.
Yeah, I think the only time complex metaphors are more impressive as opposed to straightforward ones are when the content is better or more creative. In Renegade, it was not.

[Accor]

I saw that rap genius one, I never read it though.
Yeah, I think the only time complex metaphors are more impressive as opposed to straightforward ones are when the content is better or more creative. In Renegade, it was not.

Idk, I mean, I'll usually take metaphors, double/triple entendre's, and wordplay over straight rhyming or whatever since I think they're much harder to write. That's why I think 'Failure' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyLLmByA6Y0) is one of the most impressive songs of all time. I'll always take someone like (old) Lupe over someone like Tech N9ne.

I think Jay has a really good mix of the two though

[12characters]

I saw that rap genius one, I never read it though.
Yeah, I think the only time complex metaphors are more impressive as opposed to straightforward ones are when the content is better or more creative. In Renegade, it was not.

Idk, I mean, I'll usually take metaphors, double/triple entendre's, and wordplay over straight rhyming or whatever since I think they're much harder to write. That's why I think 'Failure' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyLLmByA6Y0) is one of the most impressive songs of all time. I'll always take someone like (old) Lupe over someone like Tech N9ne.

I think Jay has a really good mix of the two though

I don't think they always are--talking more about double entendres rather than triples.
If you think about it, punchlines are a sort of double entendre and A LOT of those are either corny, simple, or not well thought out at all. Compare those to complex rhyming--not just end-multis but also inner rhymes/assonance, alliteration (which Em sort of does in one of his verses), and inverses-- ALL while pertaining to his content (which like Jay's, was really solid and thoughtful)... then I don't think it makes much sense to say Metaphors >>> * always.

Granted, Jay-Z's metaphors aren't like that ^
But they didn't impressive me enough to say they it was even.

[Accor]

I don't think they always are--talking more about double entendres rather than triples.
If you think about it, punchlines are a sort of double entendre and A LOT of those are either corny, simple, or not well thought out at all. Compare those to complex rhyming--not just end-multis but also inner rhymes/assonance, alliteration (which Em sort of does in one of his verses), and inverses-- ALL while pertaining to his content (which like Jay's, was really solid and thoughtful)... then I don't think it makes much sense to say Metaphors >>> * always.

Granted, Jay-Z's metaphors aren't like that ^
But they didn't impressive me enough to say they it was even.

I think that if you take a song with pretty straight forward content and JUST rhyming (obviously with complex rhyme schemes and whatever) and a song with straight forward content with metaphors/double meanings, I'd be more impressed with the latter. Failure vs Underground for example.

I like a mix of both though which is why I'm so fond of Jay-Z.
Complex rhyme schemes can be impressive, I just think there are other forms of lyricism that are a lot more impressive.

Punchlines can be extremely corny though, Recovery for example lol

[12characters]

I don't think they always are--talking more about double entendres rather than triples.
If you think about it, punchlines are a sort of double entendre and A LOT of those are either corny, simple, or not well thought out at all. Compare those to complex rhyming--not just end-multis but also inner rhymes/assonance, alliteration (which Em sort of does in one of his verses), and inverses-- ALL while pertaining to his content (which like Jay's, was really solid and thoughtful)... then I don't think it makes much sense to say Metaphors >>> * always.

Granted, Jay-Z's metaphors aren't like that ^
But they didn't impressive me enough to say they it was even.

I think that if you take a song with pretty straight forward content and JUST rhyming (obviously with complex rhyme schemes and whatever) and a song with straight forward content with metaphors/double meanings, I'd be more impressed with the latter. Failure vs Underground for example.

I like a mix of both though which is why I'm so fond of Jay-Z.
Complex rhyme schemes can be impressive, I just think there are other forms of lyricism that are a lot more impressive.

Punchlines can be extremely corny though, Recovery for example lol

I'm not saying I don't like a mix. I'm saying metaphors can take away from a song too. Look at the entire YM label, they're usually much worse than Recovery.

Oh and I'm also saying, Eminem's rhyming > Jay-Z's mix in Renegade--which may make it seem like I don't appreciate a mix, but as I said, Jay-Z on Renegade isn't the most impressive imo.

And Failure isn't a good example because he dabbles with rhyming while Underground does not with metaphors

[Accor]

[

I'm not saying I don't like a mix. I'm saying metaphors can take away from a song too. Look at the entire YM label, they're usually much worse than Recovery.

And Failure isn't a good example because he dabbles with rhyming while Underground does not with metaphors

oh yeah definitely bad metaphors can bring down a song, I'm not really sure if anyone on YM (other than Drake and Wayne) has ever actually used a proper metaphor though lol. I'm just saying like, if there were a song with GREAT rhyming and okay or no form of worplay, metaphors, entendre's etc. and a song with GREAT wordplay, metaphors, entendre's etc. with okay rhyming, I'd probably be more impressed with the latter. I just think the technical aspect of rap isn't as impressive as lyricism, but I'm not a rapper so idk.

Also maybe Failure wasn't the best example but I think the rhymes are usually pretty basic in it.

[12characters]

[

I'm not saying I don't like a mix. I'm saying metaphors can take away from a song too. Look at the entire YM label, they're usually much worse than Recovery.

And Failure isn't a good example because he dabbles with rhyming while Underground does not with metaphors

oh yeah definitely bad metaphors can bring down a song, I'm not really sure if anyone on YM (other than Drake and Wayne) has ever actually used a proper metaphor though lol. I'm just saying like, if there were a song with GREAT rhyming and okay or no form of worplay, metaphors, entendre's etc. and a song with GREAT wordplay, metaphors, entendre's etc. with okay rhyming, I'd probably be more impressed with the latter. I just think the technical aspect of rap isn't as impressive as lyricism, but I'm not a rapper so idk.

Also maybe Failure wasn't the best example but I think the rhymes are usually pretty basic in it.

That's cool, man.
I like a variety of mixtures, not just all rhyming or just all metaphors.

But at the end of the day, Blu just makes these topic to give him something to do during his suspension from school :/

[jayomu]

I've never seen anyone actually explain how Eminem's verses were better than Jay's

that biased RapGenius article and the comment made by "Beth Hart". Kthanksbye

[classthe_king]

I'm not trying to get into an argument but Jay-Z's lines in that song make it's own case

How you rate music that thugs with nothing relate to it?
I help them see they way through it, not you.

To me, those lines are really powerful.

[Accor]

ya man i like mixtures too brah, i think people like jay, nas, joe budden, slug, blu, mos def etc have perfect balances most of the time

crooked i and tech n9ne do not