Tech N9ne's verses make me go..."what?"

[classthe_king]

Nah when you're writing a verse and structuring it to the beat you can't really change the flow without changing the lyrics. Besides, that's irrelevant to the big point.

[CrashBand]

You can.

No it's not. I showed how flow is a separate category.

[classthe_king]

Not really, in order to change the flow you would have to change the beat. I guess beat selection is apart of the flow category.

And really, you could change the rhyming without changing the lyricism. If somewhere in your verse you changed "good" to "great" to add an extra rhyme or make another rhyme longer then you would be changing the rhyming without changing the lyricism.

[Blu]

There's not many ways you can flow on a beat. You're definitely going to have to rewrite some of your lyrics to fit so you don't sound like you're off-beat.

I don't consider rhyming a part of lyricism either. Eminem is a great lyricist because back in his earlier days his word choice was perfect...he was using words he probably didn't even use on a regular basis. He just also knew he could weave multi's with them as well, and he used that to his advantage.

Eminem could still be considered a great lyricist if he only used end rhymes. Rock Bottom would have been every bit as powerful to the average listener if had chosen to only rhyme the last word of each line.

So, I don't really think it's fair to call someone a bad "lyricist" if their verses are still filled with a powerful message.

[CrashBand]

Not really, in order to change the flow you would have to change the beat. I guess beat selection is apart of the flow category.

And really, you could change the rhyming without changing the lyricism. If somewhere in your verse you changed "good" to "great" to add an extra rhyme or make another rhyme longer then you would be changing the rhyming without changing the lyricism.

You literally can change the flow. I can flow any sentence any way I want.

And no, that is changing the lyricism because that is changing the word choice.

[CrashBand]

So, I don't really think it's fair to call someone a bad "lyricist" if their verses are still filled with a powerful message.

Lol @ your straw man. All I'm saying is rhyming is a part of lyricism. Which it is.

[classthe_king]

Not really, in order to change the flow you would have to change the beat. I guess beat selection is apart of the flow category.

And really, you could change the rhyming without changing the lyricism. If somewhere in your verse you changed "good" to "great" to add an extra rhyme or make another rhyme longer then you would be changing the rhyming without changing the lyricism.

You literally can change the flow. I can flow any sentence any way I want.

And no, that is changing the lyricism because that is changing the word choice.

Not if you want it to be on beat. If you want to change the way you want it to flow and still be on beat then you need to change the lyrics.

And the change in the word choice is minor, the overall message wouldn't change

[CrashBand]

And the change in the word choice is minor, the overall message wouldn't change

It doesn't matter, you are still changing the lyricism.

And rappers do change words to rhyme which change the message significantly.

[classthe_king]

And the change in the word choice is minor, the overall message wouldn't change

It doesn't matter, you are still changing the lyricism.

And rappers do change words to rhyme which change the message significantly.

You didn't address the flow part, concession accepted.


Exactly, because they're sacrificing lyricism for rhyming. If rhyming was apart of lyricism then that wouldn't make any sense, it'd be impossible to sacrifice lyricism for rhyming because increasing the rhyming would be increasing the lyricism. You don't see someone say oh he's sacrificing his lyricism for metaphors because increasing the quality of the metaphors increases how you get your message across and increases your lyricism. Increasing the quality of your rhyming doesn't have anything to do with how you're getting your message across and doesn't have any specific affect on your lyricism one way or another.

[CrashBand]

You can change the flow you fucking idiot.

If you put a metaphor/double entendre in but it made the rest of the line not make sense. That would be sacrificing lyricism for metaphors/double entendres.

Increasing the quantity of metaphors does not increase how you get the message across.

And increasing the quality of rhyming does change "how you are getting the message across". It literally changes words/ meaning.

I can add words for other words that rhyme and it would change the message in my song.

Lol @ your stubborn ass.

[classthe_king]

Jesus you know absolutely nothing about how rap songs are made and you're here calling me an idiot

And increasing the quality of metaphors doesn't increase how you get your message across. way

Oh I love how you changed my word from quality to quantity. Way too avoid the point again lolz

[classthe_king]

And increasing the quality of rhyming does change "how you are getting the message across". It literally changes words/ meaning.

This is what you are failing to understand. Yes you are changing the words but you aren't necessarily changing them for the worst or for the best when you change them to rhyme because RHYMING DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE MEANING OF WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. You change the rhyming and it could make the lyricism better, or it could make the lyricism worse depending on what you changed. Change the metaphors, word choice, etc and you're automatically changing the lyricism depending on if you're changing the metaphors for the better or the word choice for the better. They are an aspect of lyricism, rhyming is not. Is there any other way I can walk you through this? If I made a youtube video would that help?

[cheeseburger]

And increasing the quality of rhyming does change "how you are getting the message across". It literally changes words/ meaning.

This is what you are failing to understand. Yes you are changing the words but you aren't necessarily changing them for the worst or for the best when you change them to rhyme because RHYMING DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE MEANING OF WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. You change the rhyming and it could make the lyricism better, or it could make the lyricism worse depending on what you changed. Change the metaphors, word choice, etc and you're automatically changing the lyricism depending on if you're changing the metaphors for the better or the word choice for the better. They are an aspect of lyricism, rhyming is not. Is there any other way I can walk you through this? If I made a youtube video would that help?

I dont like you. You cannot hang out with me.

[CrashBand]

Lol. I get where you are coming from. I'm not the stubborn fool.

But rhyming is about changing word choice. Same as alliteration. Same as vocabulary.

They are part of lyricism and "how you are writing".

To affect rhyme/alliteration/vocabulary - you have to change the lyrics.

[classthe_king]

No. Rhyming is about making syllables sound alike. That is all. You can rhyme every word in the song and it could be the most piss poor lyrics ever or it could be the greatest lyrics ever. Look at Rock Bottom and look at any Tech N9ne song. Both have similar rhyming, completely different levels of lyricism because rhyming has no effect on lyricism.


I just figured out how to explain it to you, can't believe I didn't think of this before.

It's just a simple cause of correlation, not causation. When you're changing the rhyme you're changing the lyricism but not because rhyming is apart of lyricism or has an effect on lyricism, but because you're changing the words. The change in word choice is what affects the rhyme and what affects the lyricism. They don't affect each other or have anything to do with each other.