Rhyming and lyricism aren't the same thing

[Blu]

Real quick, not trying to bash anyone, I'm just stating a fact.

I constantly see people thinking that rhyming = lyricism when it doesn't.
Let's pretend that "lyricism" is Peanut Butter and "rhyming" is Jelly. You can have one without the other, the product is still good. If you put them together however, you get an even better product.

See the thing is, there's a huge flaw with considering rhyming is part of lyricism. An underground rapper like Copywrite can fill his bars full of multi's and be considered a GREAT lyricist, just because he was sure to fill his verse full of meaningless rhymes that don't mean shit. But, a mainstream rapper like Jay-Z can fill his bars full of poetic lines and be considered a BAD lyricist, because he didn't fill his verse with multi's and internals.

So following this logic, every TRShady rapper who has ever stuffed their verse with a 5+ syllable multi is an automatically better lyricist than a great like Nas.

Rhyming is how the words sounds, lyricism is what the words mean. Eminem is a great rhymer yeah, but his word choice (lyricism) added to the powerful effect he had on fans. Look at his early work: "Rock Bottom" is filled with some brilliant writing. On the first listen, the listener wouldn't even notice all the rhyming going on. They're just mesmerized by the incredible word choice.

Thank y'all.

[SajN]

You always state facts, don't you?

Please tell me more facts.

[DƎRDYPK]

aynis

[Willy]

I kind of see where you and Class are coming from, and if it makes you feel better you can separate rhyming from lyricism. But before you get crucified, you might wanna reevaluate:

' "Rock Bottom" is filled with some brilliant writing. On the first listen, the listener wouldn't even notice all the rhyming going on. They're just mesmerized by the incredible word choice. '

[Blu]

>Copywrite
>Meaningless rhymes that don't mean shit

It was an example.

And Jay's an average lyricist, it's pretty much a fact.

No.

I kind of see where you and Class are coming from, and if it makes you feel better you can separate rhyming from lyricism. But before you get crucified, you might wanna reevaluate:

' "Rock Bottom" is filled with some brilliant writing. On the first listen, the listener wouldn't even notice all the rhyming going on. They're just mesmerized by the incredible word choice. '

Why would I get crucified for that?

[Trimss]

Blu you also said Rock Bottom would be as good as it is without the rhyming.. Which is definitely not true.

I think you need to know how to rhyme to be a good lyricist.

[Slim Fiasco]

I divide lyricism into rhyming, complexity (metaphors/wordplay etc.) and content. The content is basically what is being said i.e. the meaning of the words and the complexity and rhyming add to how you put that meaning together i.e. how you say it (the word choice).

You can have good content without a lot of rhyming (multies, alliteration, assonance, etc.) and without complexity. Example - 2Pac and Biggie.

To me, a rapper is good lyrically as long as he's saying something with great meaning i.e. has a great content, and if there's good rhyming and/or complexity involved then that's even better.

Whether you prefer good rhyming or complexity is totally up to you, but a lack of "good" rhyming or complexity by no means = bad lyricist; and that's what I think Blu is trying to say here, something that I agree with completely.

*For the record, I personally prefer complexity over rhyming.

[Trimss]

^ Yeah, I agree with that, completely.

An example of a bad lyricist that fills up his lines with rhymes is Crooked I, really really bad lyricist.

Then again it depends on the song but usually, yeah I agree.

[classthe_king]

Crashband and I already discussed this topic in every possible way and dissected it from every angle. Why the need for this thread...

Also, you argued your point terribly

[Willy]

I kind of see where you and Class are coming from, and if it makes you feel better you can separate rhyming from lyricism. But before you get crucified, you might wanna reevaluate:

' "Rock Bottom" is filled with some brilliant writing. On the first listen, the listener wouldn't even notice all the rhyming going on. They're just mesmerized by the incredible word choice. '

Why would I get crucified for that?

Well, on first listen (assuming the guy is a fan of rap) the listener will definitely notice all the rhyming going on. The word choice is incredible because it maintains the rhyming density without compromising the message. Rhyming has a LOT to do with why the song is a classic.

[Accor]

rhyming is only impressive to me if you can do it an impressive amount without changing how you say things/what you're trying to say (hopsin, crooked I, tech n9ne). A great example is AZ's verse on lifes a bitch.

I think rhyming is mostly a part of flow though, and I much prefer other aspects of rap/lyricism because I think they're harder to write.

[Trimss]

rhyming is only impressive to me if you can do it an impressive amount without changing how you say things/what you're trying to say (hopsin, crooked I, tech n9ne). A great example is AZ's verse on lifes a bitch.

I think rhyming is mostly a part of flow though, and I much prefer other aspects of rap/lyricism because I think they're harder to write.

Hopsin does not change what he wants to say you ignorant faggot, he might over use multies but he's never sacrifying what he wants to say, do you even listen to the guy?

[Accor]

He was more of an example of overusing multies and changing how he words things, not sacrificing a message or whatever.

and don't get mad because hopsin is a corny boring eminem wannabe that sounds the same on 80% of his songs :'''(

[Trimss]

He was more of an example of overusing multies and changing how he words things, not sacrificing a message or whatever.

and don't get mad because hopsin is a corny boring eminem wannabe that sounds the same on 80% of his songs :'''(

I'm not getting mad lmao but nice attempt. We all know Hopsin is a better rapper and producer than Kanye West anyway.

[King Lance]

He was more of an example of overusing multies and changing how he words things, not sacrificing a message or whatever.

and don't get mad because hopsin is a corny boring eminem wannabe that sounds the same on 80% of his songs :'''(

I'm not getting mad lmao but nice attempt. We all know Hopsin is a better rapper and producer than Kanye West anyway.

I didn't know he was a better producer than kanye