Reply to "Was Mary really a virgin?"

[Emadyville]

http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm

Interesting how no one writes about Jesus during his alleged lifetime.

yerp

[SliK]

It blows my mind how anyone can believe that to be honest. Like it seriously baffles me.

[SliK]

The majority of the world isn't Christian though... So why are you Christian?

Only a third of the world believes Christ is our savior... Two thirds (roughly 66%) either believe Christ didn't even exist or that he was not the son of God.

I am part of that 66%.

Edit: The rate of non-believers is growing drastically. 500 years ago you couldn't find an atheist if you tried. Now 15% of the population are athiests. That number is only going to keep growing btw.

[SliK]

Yeah the majority of the world is religious but they all disagree with each other. If it was like 85% of people believed in the same religion and 15% were athiests then sure. But dude, think about this... If there is no God then 100% of religious people are incorrect. However, if there is a correct religion, that means the majority of religious people are still wrong! Because they all believe different shit. to me, when you say "the majority of the world is religious", that just goes to show me how desperate we are (or were) as a species to believe in a "God", because there are questions we can't answer.

you must acknowledge, being a Christian, that all other religions are false, correct?
Then you must acknowledge that their scripture is also false.
Then surely, you must acknowledge that it is POSSIBLE that the scripture you believe is also false, right?

[Trimss]

Every Religion believes in 1 God, so we all beleive in God.

What about Polytheism? There are a lot of religions who don't believe in "one god"

[SliK]

Are there negative connotations attached to the word 'judge'? If so, not necissarily. It's like, do you judge a scientologist, or a cult member, for believing something so idiotic and following such ridiculous rules? Or a cult leader who is preaching false gospil and inventing a religion for financial/political/personal gain? Doesn't that disgust you that those selfish people hold good peoples lives in their hands? I see religion exactly like that, as you would see a cult.

So I think the members of any cult (religions included) are pretty blind to the big picture. They close themselves off to a lot, not (necessarily) physically but intellectually. Not saying they're (necessarily) unintelligent, just closed off to a lot because they can't believe it.

[SliK]

I love science though.

[SliK]

Not every theist is that open minded.

[classthe_king]

Bigray you think you're open minded but you're one of the most close minded people on this entire board.

[classthe_king]

You said, "I believe what I believe and no one will ever convince me other wise no matter what."

That is the definition of close minded.

[classthe_king]

My definition is not being open to new thoughts or ideas. So yes by my definition you are close minded.

[classthe_king]

We're discussing a members thoughts on a topic which is essential to have a discussion on the topic

[CrashBand]

bigray, don't be a 'lil bitch.

If you disagree and think that "I believe what I believe and no one will ever convince me other wise no matter what." is not closed-minded. Then put an argument forth how you're not.

Otherwise, just admit that when it comes to religion, you are closed-minded.

Although, a problem arises - once one has admitted they are closed-minded to a topic, there isn't am awful lot to discuss about.

[classthe_king]

Although, a problem arises - once one has admitted they are closed-minded to a topic, there isn't am awful lot to discuss about.

Which is when they should proceed to leave the Serious Debate and stop posting here.

[TripleNineThree]

2. Was Mary a virgin? Well, if one has the presupposition that God exists, then how would it be hard to believe that Mary could be a virgin? Now, if you come into it believing there is no God, then obviously you won't believe this statement. Jesus fulfilled over 300 prophecies from the Old Testament down to the smallest details, INCLUDING virgin birth.

That's a ridiculous presupposition that no one should take blindly. He fulfilled over 300 prophecies? Bullshit. He fulfilled a bunch of vague statements that you could bend to make anyone fill. Plus it's not hard to make someone fulfill prophecies when you're making the story up and you know what prophecies he needs to fulfill.

Also, there were many prophecies in the bible that were not fulfilled.

3. For those saying Jesus never existed. That is the most historically ignorant and foolish statement I read throughout this entire debate section. Don't think you're smart simply because you're an atheist. That is a really stupid statement.

No it's not. It's the only reasonable historically accurate stance you can take. I'm not saying he definitely didn't exist but we don't know if he did or not. None of the historical documents were written while Jesus was alive. Most of them were written much later, by almost two generations. In fact, none of the prominent Jewish scholars alive in Jerusalem during the time of Jesus said a word about Jesus. I find that weird that one can come back from the dead and no one even bats and eye.

4. Conclusion, yes Mary was a virgin but if your presupposition is that there is no God, obviously you won't believe that.

Because it's ridiculous and impossible

I don't like debating religion but there was far too much people saying stuff without doing any research about it.

That's ironic.

EDIT One more interesting fact. Scientists for years believed that the universe didn't have a beginning, that it always just was. The term "Big Bang" was actually coined by a man making fun of those who held to the "religious" belief that the universe had a beginning as described in Genesis (In the beginning...). Evidence then pointed that galaxies were expanding from a central point, therefore pointing to the fact that the universe had a beginning. The vast majority of scientists rejected this on philosophical grounds. Now it's treated as a fact.

No that's wrong. Scientists still believe that the universe never had a beginning. Most scientists believe the big bang was just a way of the universe to collapse on itself and then expand again in a cyclical pattern.

Wow this has too many pages so I'll just answer Class' objections.

1. The prophecies were vague. Really? Let me give you an example, you let me know if it's vague. I was going to post the whole thing but it is too long. Go read Isaiah 53. That's one of the most detailed prophecies Jesus fulfilled, there's over 300 of them similar to that. If you would like, I can point you to a table that shows all of them. They aren't "vague" as you claim.


2. There's no proof Jesus existed? There's more proof for Hercules than Jesus? You obviously said this just to be a troll (the Hercules part). You make the claim that there's NO historical writers during Jesus' time that mentioned him. Once again, you're wrong.
Do some reading about the following people.
1. Flavius Josephus
2. Cornelius Tacitus
3. Pliny the Younger

Those are just a few of the historians from Jesus' time whose writings we still have and who mention Jesus' death and "supposive" resurrection (They weren't believers in Him, they simply mentioned his history) and they all agree with the Gospel accounts.

And yes, it is foolish and ignorant to say Jesus never existed. It's VERY foolish to say the disciples didn't exist and it's also been proven historically that they all died for their belief in the Resurrection. Tell me, why would they die for something they themselves made up? That's not logical. They truly did believe that Jesus resurrected (and obviously that they walked with him before his death). Now, you could make the argument that the entire thing was a hallucination but that's also ridiculous because over 500 people claim to have saw Jesus after his Resurrection.

3. Believing in God isn't something you should just believe without any evidence. Correct. This isn't a debate about the existence of God so I didn't go on and on about that. But, there is good evidence for a Creator. There are many arguments one can make, read the writing of Augustine or Thomas Aquinas. If you would like me to go into more detail, I will but I think that would move this entirely off subject.

4. No, I do not like to be involved in religious debates but "super intelligent atheists" are here who make unfounded claims such as there being more proof for Hercules than Jesus and then attack bigray so I decided to step in. You can ask my good friend Eedee (who is an atheist) if I enjoy debating religion. I really don't. But, I am an unashamed believe of Jesus Christ.

5. Scientists don't believe the universe had a beginning. Well, actually, most do believe that the Big Bang points to the universe having a beginning. They haven't found any evidence that anything existed before the Big Bang. I'm not sure what credible scientists make the claim that the universe never had a beginning but Stephen Hawking (who we both know is an atheist) believes the universe had a beginning and, as far as I can read on Nasa about the story of the universe, they also teach the universe had a beginning.

Many of your "facts" and "arguments" are unfounded and are simply personal attacks to try to piss people off.