How would you have changed Relapse?

[EminemBase]

I wouldn't change or replace any, I'd just take off "Beautiful", "Crack a Bottle", "Underground" and the 'Paul' and 'Ken Kaniff' skits. Without all that crap, it's a top to bottom classic to me.

Refill is superb, and those were Relapse 2 tracks. So just imagine how good the entire album probably was. I wouldn't put Relapse 2 tracks on #1, I'd leave #1 as intended... and by intended I mean it ending at "Deja Vu"; without the tracks put on to be singles and saftey-nets.

And I'd release Relapse 2, a probable masterwork, in its entirety. Over appeasing shitty fans who don't understand what you're trying to do in the first place.

@ Menzo - I don't believe Em structured it with much narrative in mind. I think he often thinks of the intro and outro, he MAY have intended for 12 tracks, but I doubt any further than that. And if the 12 tracks thing was true... it just further proves what I've been saying about the actual album he made intending to end on "Deja Vu", the 12th track. The others are shitty add-ons / clearly out of place. They're not supposed to be there, they're after-thoughts and compromises.

[righfield]

I don't think it's too far fetched tbh. There's always been for me a clear structure and I would not change it. I basically got the same impression geno and menzo got though the 12 steps thing never hit me. The only thing that sorta contradicts this is the planned relapse 2 and what the angle would have been on that though somehow i think it would of been a little more reflective plus im sure theres at least TWO relapse 2s in exsistance otherwise how would you explain cocain. But I guess all we can do is speculate and maybe em did'nt think that deeply about it but I don't know... it's the mindset i've always and will always enter when listening to relapse.

[AbramIsaac]

Eminem said in interviews prior to the release that it was him falling back into his old ways...

That's not a reach at all. The explanations behind all of the tracks and the way they interconnect might be, but it's pretty clear that he was trying to recapture the essence of Slim Shady. He said that Dre asked his son what people wanted to hear from him, to which his son replied "They just want to hear him bug the fuck out again" and I think that's what he was trying to do.

Having "Beautiful" and "Crack a Bottle" on there weren't conceptual decisions, in my eyes though. As EminemBase said, I'm pretty sure they were just business moves. Safety nets, to make the album more marketable.

[ShadyxEminem]

Gosh, what does Recovery mean?

[Blu]

I understand him going back to his old ways isn't a reach, but for him to make such a intricate album only to bash it on his next one IS a huge reach.

[AbramIsaac]

I understand him going back to his old ways isn't a reach, but for him to make such a intricate album only to bash it on his next one IS a huge reach.

Right, I don't think it's interconnected quite like people are saying. There is a concept to it, but I'm not sure it's so linear...of course, it could be.

His "bashing" of Relapse is overstated though, I think. Relapse was "mehh" as an album, no matter how good it was lyrically. It was an unnatural album, especially considering how those other songs were just tacked on. As far as "fuck my last cd, that shit's in my trash" goes, I don't think that is directed towards Relapse specifically, but rather a statement of him saying he would put each album behind him and keep moving forward at full speed.

So...assuming he did intend all of those intricate interconnections between the songs, the truth comes down to what he said in an interview about Relapse when then interviewer brought up the love that Tyler, The Creator expressed for the album. He said that he didn't dislike Relapse, but that he felt like maybe he focused too much on one concept, or one style. Perhaps that concept included all of these intricate interconnections.

I still don't think it's quite that extensive though.

[Blu]

What is your theory?

[Snakebeast]

Gosh, what does Recovery mean?

Recovery is Em going back to his old album format, cept without skits.

[EminemBase]

I don't think it's too far fetched tbh. There's always been for me a clear structure and I would not change it. I basically got the same impression geno and menzo got though the 12 steps thing never hit me. The only thing that sorta contradicts this is the planned relapse 2 and what the angle would have been on that though somehow i think it would of been a little more reflective plus im sure theres at least TWO relapse 2s in exsistance otherwise how would you explain cocain. But I guess all we can do is speculate and maybe em did'nt think that deeply about it but I don't know... it's the mindset i've always and will always enter when listening to relapse.

You would explain "Cocaine" as a song made when he attempted to change direction.

Anything that was not produced by Dr. Dre, was not for any Relapse album. It's very simple.

All Relapse material was recorded and ready to go upon announcing both. All he was doing was picking the tracks for the album, with the second one. Anything he made with a new producer and rap style (which "Cocaine" is), and new subject matter, was by definition the beginning of a new album.

I think Relapse 2 would have been a 'second Relapse', he did actually relapse twice. And 50 Cent said the 2nd Relapse was 'exciting' even before the first one came out. Exciting isn't a word you use about a reflective album, it's a word you use for songs like "Buffalo Bil", which was R2 material. Em had no intentions of making the aim of his music his life again, until the mixed reception. He says this himself in initial Relapse interviews; that he was tryna move away from it being all 'mememe'. Which is also proof he knew exactly what he was doing and him suddenly 'coming out of some hazy faze' was such a lie. He just chose to be accepted over being artistically pure. Which was shocking.

[EminemBase]

Well at least a theory can be made for Relapse...what does Recovery have, in terms of a cohesive undertone? Nothing. It's essentially "I'm back to normal" while rapping on beats that aren't in his comfort zone, while using a plethora of punchlines, when he's typically never done that.

So it's a lie.

Recovery = cake

Recovery is about confidence (and exaggerated arrogance and bravado - hence all the big dick and 'I'm so awesome' punnage) self-belief... and recovery (rather than dwelling on the negatives, he states them and shows he's overcoming / overcome them... such as overcoming his public downfall and addictions on "Not Afraid", overcoming the depression and darkness of "Going Through Changes", ending on a positive note, celebrating Proof's influence and using it as fuel to get stronger ETC. so there is a consistent mindset throughout the album, even if as a whole it's flawed).

He admits his flaws and overstates his pluses.

The title actually has a somewhat genius byproduct resonance when you consider the fact it was the album that 'recovered his commercial status' - whether you consider that important or not doesn't matter, the fact it was a very big album with two #1 singles straight off the bat gives that title a whole new meaning, it's like a statement in his career... it becomes his historic comeback album and the title means more because of it. You also have the fact that Detroit / the economy was in a state of recovery (is, I should say, but particularly then), and on the alternate cover you have the GM Renaissance Center in the background, which was in a state of major economic recovery.

So I actually think the title is fairly brilliant, and he metaphorically aligns himself (visually only) with the recovery of Detroit / its economy and encapsulates that spirit of a fighter and rising to the ocassion with things like "Cinderella Man". It's less of a concept, more of a theme, I wouldn't say it's a bad one, the production just sucked dick. If he had produced it and made a few songs more with more of an outward glance or commentary... it could have been special. Because the timing of it, with that title, the economy... the concept of being in a state of recovery... that could have resonated in a much bigger way if his perspective wasn't so particular and insular.

He did intend that relevance too, the GM being in the shot is obviously very significant and intentional, and he talked about not having made an album that's completely relevant yet. This could have been it, but the music and way he did it felt too messy and disjointed unfortunately. It's annoying that you keep seeing genius potential in everything he does but he just keeps missing the mark in some way and wasting the opportunity now.

[Blu]

Agreed with what EmBase said. However, even though the production was pretty shit, he needed those types of beats. Big, booming, and loud. The perfect type of sounds you'd need for someone celebrating overcoming their demons. It's stadium music, and it adds to the idea of recovering. A boxer doesn't listen to a symphony to pump him up, he listens to some hard rock/rap music that'll make him go nuts.

That's what Eminem's been calling himself, figuratively, anyways. A boxer coming back for the champion belt, and it's safe to say he's got it.

[EminemBase]

Agreed with what EmBase said. However, even though the production was pretty shit, he needed those types of beats. Big, booming, and loud. The perfect type of sounds you'd need for someone celebrating overcoming their demons. It's stadium music, and it adds to the idea of recovering. A boxer doesn't listen to a symphony to pump him up, he listens to some hard rock/rap music that'll make him go nuts.

That's what Eminem's been calling himself, figuratively, anyways. A boxer coming back for the champion belt, and it's safe to say he's got it.

Yeah but the problem wasn't the type of beats, just the quality of them.

It was all overdone, really messy and had no distinct style. It was basically just noise.

"Till I Collapse" is a big booming pump up beat, but there's a clear melody and a style there.

[Blu]

Yeah, I wish Em took more time choosing the type of production and even asking Dre, who seems like the only guy around Em who's always been 100% honest with him, if he thought the beats were dope.

Ah well, hopefully Em fixes all these little mistakes with the next release.

[Francesco]

Relapse is good, but Refill is fucking godly. I think most can agree on that. What songs on Relapse would you have replaced with Refill songs, and in what order would you have put it in?

Well they had to just release ''Relapse2'' ...all the songs for both albums were recorded at the same time, which means not releasing the second part makes ''Relapse'' incomplete. They were planned to be 2 albums, it wasn't like ''Relapse'' was one album & they decided later on to do a sequel to it. They had all those songs, made two albums, cut the rest & planned to drop two albums.
The really shitty part is a 50 said the better material was on the second one so basically they fucked up no dropping it.