Sticky Fingaz talks past with Dre, Em & 50.

[DƎRDYPK]

Sticky Fingaz had the best verse on the whole album imho

[Francesco]

Sticky Fingaz had the best verse on the whole album imho

EM have not one but several better verses on the album IMO but I agree this verse is pretty crazy as well. It definitely fits perfectly on the album & the song too.

[Wreck]

@Wreck
I totally agree with your first-two paragraphs... That's what I meant. It's not only about millions, esp. when you have EM & 50 doing them millions back then & esp. when some rappers Jimmy dropped or held for a long time had made millions for him anyway (Obie, Busta, Lloyd Banks). That's why I gave an example with Def Jam 'cuz they've always looked for those cats that sell millions but they never drop rappers from their roster (especially legends in the game) after their sales start to decrease. Jimmy will always get his money, he's pretty smart if we talk about that... but he definitely butchered Aftermath/Shady/G-Unit after that in house clearance. He'd always prefer (esp. at the time) 4 albums from EM & 50, rather than 2 of theirs & 2 of their artists 'cuz their artists could never sell as them. Ironically though 50 came as an underdog & a basic artist at Shady but still built a whole empire doing tens of millions for Jimmy.


You're wrong in the third paragraph though... Check this out:

(Snoop)
Right back up in ya muthfuckin ass
'95 plus four pennies
Add that shit up, (Dre left Death Row in '95, adding 4 is '99 when ''2001'' came)
D-R-E right back on top of thangs
Smoke some with your dog
No stress, no seeds, no stems, no sticks!
Some of that real sticky icky
Ooo Wee, put it in the air
For you's a fool D.R.

Snoop addresses exactly what Abram was talking about previously in this thread... the Suge/Death Row's album ''Chronic 2000'' that came a little before Dre's ''2001''... Initially Dre's album was called ''Chronic 2000'', then Suge stole the title to fuck Dre over & released all stars album with that title right before Dre's came, which obviously made Dre rename his album to ''Chronic 2001'' & even made him drop the ''Chronic'' making it just ''2001'' as for the official title. Like Abram said, Suge's album had some momentum & it looked like he could have fucked over Dre, but only until ''2001'' came & put Dre again by far on top of the things.
If you've followed closely what was going down back then you'd know it. As a matter a fact Suge had to come with ''Too gangsta for radio'' after ''2001'' 'cuz apparently it killed his label (what was left from the real one) forever, without even directly going at them.
Snoop has never called Dr.Dre - D.R. exactly 'cuz of Death Row. It's either Dr.Dre, Dre, Doc or D.R.E.
Basically in the outro Snoop says Dre comes on top & fucks them back over, for which they are fools. If you look at the lyrics in the whole song, even though indirectly all the way it is all about that.

Thanks for cosigning me on the first part, and I agree there, Jimmy would rather his 2 artists put out 10 albums that a good artist that won't sell a 5th of what they sell put out 1 album on his label.

As for the 2nd part, I think you're right there. But believe me, I followed that all that shit back then, minus the Too Gangsta For Radio tape, I just didn't realize he was going after Death Row in the end there, it makes sense when you break it down.

And btw, you probably already know this, but if you don't, Dre chose to leave Death Row on his own, they didn't drop him, so even though the DR camp might of been assholes to him personally when he was over there, I believe they never dicked him over financially.

[Francesco]

Thanks for cosigning me on the first part, and I agree there, Jimmy would rather his 2 artists put out 10 albums that a good artist that won't sell a 5th of what they sell put out 1 album on his label.

As for the 2nd part, I think you're right there. But believe me, I followed that all that shit back then, minus the Too Gangsta For Radio tape, I just didn't realize he was going after Death Row in the end there, it makes sense when you break it down.

And btw, you probably already know this, but if you don't, Dre chose to leave Death Row on his own, they didn't drop him, so even though the DR camp might of been assholes to him personally when he was over there, I believe they never dicked him over financially.

No problem, I always pay respect when it's due!

The thing is, Dre & Snoop never really wanted to go against Suge, even EM has said Dre never let him go against Suge 'cuz that would've been a huge mistake outside the business part. The guy was (still is) a total moron, who could have easily done something way worse than a diss song/album. So on ''2001'' they were only addressing all that & never went directly at Suge/Death Row throughout.

You're absolutely right Dre left Death Row on his own, as Suge was putting them all in risk all the time, which got 2Pac murdered & almost got Snoop in jail for life, got Sam Sneed nearly beat to death, his latest protege The Realest shot but not killed & etc. etc. Apart from always putting 'em at risk, Suge was always fucking everybody money wise as well, even Dre, Pac & Snoop.
Dre left when Suge wanted him to go to the court on Snoop's trial & say Snoop was at his house when that guy was murdered. It was stupid because there was many witnesses that have seen Snoop close to the murder scene so Dre himself could have gone to jail for giving false testimony if Snoop was found guilty. Unfortunately though Dre not giving his false testimony got 2Pac angry making him take Suge's side at the time, which afterwards went fatal for him.
On top of it, Suge physically assaulted Dre's step brother & a huge rapper at the time Warren G, trying to make him sign a contract with Death Row.

The thing is, they couldn't drop Dre 'cuz he wasn't an artist on Death Row, he was Suge's partner as they both were half owners. But Dre leaving the label meant he was really badly fucked over money, that's why in most diss songs they make fun of Dre been broke at the time & desperate for signing a white bitch (Eminem). The irony here though is before they started ''Death row'' Suge got Dre out of his previous contract with ''Ruthless records'' by force as well.
Even though Dre owned him that, still he was really badly fucked over money leaving ''Death row''
That's why Snoop says ''95 plus 4 pennies'' which suppose to mean Dre left Death Row in '95 with nothing (4 pennies) but then says ''Add this shit up (99 when ''2001'' came) D.R.E. right back on top of things'' (both money wise & as the biggest hip-hop act on the West Coast)

As of today, Suge is broke as fuck & fighting a few cases not to go in jail, while Dre's net worth is most likely somewhere in between 250-500 million.

[Emadyville]

^ learned some info, thanks francesco, always a pleasure reading your posts

[Francesco]

^ learned some info, thanks francesco, always a pleasure reading your posts

Thanks brother, it's mutual!
You've been my fave member of the forum in general.

[Wreck]

Thanks for cosigning me on the first part, and I agree there, Jimmy would rather his 2 artists put out 10 albums that a good artist that won't sell a 5th of what they sell put out 1 album on his label.

As for the 2nd part, I think you're right there. But believe me, I followed that all that shit back then, minus the Too Gangsta For Radio tape, I just didn't realize he was going after Death Row in the end there, it makes sense when you break it down.

And btw, you probably already know this, but if you don't, Dre chose to leave Death Row on his own, they didn't drop him, so even though the DR camp might of been assholes to him personally when he was over there, I believe they never dicked him over financially.

No problem, I always pay respect when it's due!

The thing is, Dre & Snoop never really wanted to go against Suge, even EM has said Dre never let him go against Suge 'cuz that would've been a huge mistake outside the business part. The guy was (still is) a total moron, who could have easily done something way worse than a diss song/album. So on ''2001'' they were only addressing all that & never went directly at Suge/Death Row throughout.

You're absolutely right Dre left Death Row on his own, as Suge was putting them all in risk all the time, which got 2Pac murdered & almost got Snoop in jail for life, got Sam Sneed nearly beat to death, his latest protege The Realest shot but not killed & etc. etc. Apart from always putting 'em at risk, Suge was always fucking everybody money wise as well, even Dre, Pac & Snoop.
Dre left when Suge wanted him to go to the court on Snoop's trial & say Snoop was at his house when that guy was murdered. It was stupid because there was many witnesses that have seen Snoop close to the murder scene so Dre himself could have gone to jail for giving false testimony if Snoop was found guilty. Unfortunately though Dre not giving his false testimony got 2Pac angry making him take Suge's side at the time, which afterwards went fatal for him.
On top of it, Suge physically assaulted Dre's step brother & a huge rapper at the time Warren G, trying to make him sign a contract with Death Row.

The thing is, they couldn't drop Dre 'cuz he wasn't an artist on Death Row, he was Suge's partner as they both were half owners. But Dre leaving the label meant he was really badly fucked over money, that's why in most diss songs they make fun of Dre been broke at the time & desperate for signing a white bitch (Eminem). The irony here though is before they started ''Death row'' Suge got Dre out of his previous contract with ''Ruthless records'' by force as well.
Even though Dre owned him that, still he was really badly fucked over money leaving ''Death row''
That's why Snoop says ''95 plus 4 pennies'' which suppose to mean Dre left Death Row in '95 with nothing (4 pennies) but then says ''Add this shit up (99 when ''2001'' came) D.R.E. right back on top of things'' (both money wise & as the biggest hip-hop act on the West Coast)

As of today, Suge is broke as fuck & fighting a few cases not to go in jail, while Dre's net worth is most likely somewhere in between 250-500 million.

I agree with everything you're pretty much saying here. But one thing stuck out to me. I can agree to a degree I guess that Suge had a part in 2pac's murder, but 99% of it was because 2pac felt Biggie and Puffy never warned him about the Quad Studios shooting in '95. Puffy had that Quad Studios shooting set up on purpose, to aim for 2pac, etc. because 2pac refused to sign with Bad Boy a year prior, thus Puffy was teaching him a lesson sort of. He set up crips he knew from New York to put out the hit on 2pac at that studio that night. 2pac was especially pissed at Biggie because Biggie knew, to a degree, about the 2pac shooting setup that night, and didn't warn him, or apologize for knowing & not doing anything to help and/or prevent it from happening in the first place. They were good friends before the shooting obviously. As most people know, they did the Runnin' From the Police collab along with Stretch, BuJu Blanton, & Dramacydal. Obviously after the Quad Studios shooting, the 2pac-Biggie beef began, got crazy, and ultimately ended in 2pac's death (also a hit by Puffy), and the retaliatory death of Biggie, from Suge.

I just wanted to speak on that, knowing what went on, based off of interviews & books written by established by detectives in LA and other cities that followed, and did extensive research on the subject at hand.

As for your whole post in general, very good research and some great points brought up, and backed up. I'm a Dre and Snoop fan, more than the average fan that just likes 1-2 of their songs, and I never realized that Suge wanted Dre to testify that Snoop's alibi during the murder that he was on trial for was that he was at home, and not near the crime scene, when the murder occurred. I knew that Dre didn't want to go to court for Snoop's murder trial, but I always thought he didn't go, or want to go, because he wasn't as good of a friend. I also remember the part about 2pac getting mad about Dre regarding the above as well. But yeah, Idk, it sounds stupid because Dre and Snoop have always been tight since they met on a regular basis, but that's just what my thought process was at the time that I heard all this go down.

Never knew that Suge beat up Warren G either, wow, that's crazy. Very interesting, crazy stuff, if you think about it. And yeah, I knew Dre was part-owner of Death Row, with Suge, and that he was dicked over financially, but until a few days ago, I didn't realize (in the outro of Still D.R.E.) Snoop's wordplay there regarding the 95 plus 4 pennies part. That's probably the only good wordplay Snoop's ever had in his career, assuming he wrote that part.

Eminem's verse on Remember Me is the best hands down, but I like Sticky's verse too.

Unfortunately there are people out there who only look at lyrics on paper and are quick to dismiss them as a wack verse if the multis aren't complex enough, if there are too many fillers, and if the rapper uses too much slang.

What makes Sticky Fingaz a dope rapper isn't his pen game, it's his whole style. The raw, angry, and energetic delivery and flow is his signature style and what seperates him (and Onyx for that matter) from most rappers.

Being a rapper isn't just about being a master at multis and lyrics, other things matter as well. Some rappers make up for what they lack in other areas.

This is why guys like 2pac and Eminem are considered amongst the greats, they are well balanced all around. Guys like Sticky never get brought up in the GOAT discussions because they aren't as balanced, but that doesn't make them wack rappers.

With that being said, Sticky Fingaz was perfect for that song and his style was perfect for a feature on the MMLP.

This.

[Francesco]

I agree with everything you're pretty much saying here. But one thing stuck out to me. I can agree to a degree I guess that Suge had a part in 2pac's murder, but 99% of it was because 2pac felt Biggie and Puffy never warned him about the Quad Studios shooting in '95. Puffy had that Quad Studios shooting set up on purpose, to aim for 2pac, etc. because 2pac refused to sign with Bad Boy a year prior, thus Puffy was teaching him a lesson sort of. He set up crips he knew from New York to put out the hit on 2pac at that studio that night. 2pac was especially pissed at Biggie because Biggie knew, to a degree, about the 2pac shooting setup that night, and didn't warn him, or apologize for knowing & not doing anything to help and/or prevent it from happening in the first place. They were good friends before the shooting obviously. As most people know, they did the Runnin' From the Police collab along with Stretch, BuJu Blanton, & Dramacydal. Obviously after the Quad Studios shooting, the 2pac-Biggie beef began, got crazy, and ultimately ended in 2pac's death (also a hit by Puffy), and the retaliatory death of Biggie, from Suge.
I just wanted to speak on that, knowing what went on, based off of interviews & books written by established by detectives in LA and other cities that followed, and did extensive research on the subject at hand.

You're right about the Pac & Biggie situation & what really triggered the beef in between their camps. You're right about what happened in NY too... most people don't even know Pac is actually from New York 'cuz he was repping the West Coast like he was from there.
His death though is still a mystery & Biggie & Puffy's involvement in it is still like the 3rd most relevant version. If we can say there are 3 kind of relevant versions. The weird thing is, Suge more or less is involved in all 3 including this one, even though indirectly. It's really a long story & I don't really wanna start an endless discussion about it, but the most relevant version still is the one in which the Southside Crips' member Pac & the rest Death Row cats fucked up in the casino came back with his homies & did it. Pac & his crew beat him up 'cuz Suge recognized him as one of the few who robbed him in LA prior to this.
Anyway, we can't be sure about any of this whatsoever. The point was Suge was the main reason it even got to there & he even got millions out it when Pac left. The sure thing is if it didn't happen, Pac would've left at some point, just like the rest did.

As for your whole post in general, very good research and some great points brought up, and backed up. I'm a Dre and Snoop fan, more than the average fan that just likes 1-2 of their songs, and I never realized that Suge wanted Dre to testify that Snoop's alibi during the murder that he was on trial for was that he was at home, and not near the crime scene, when the murder occurred. I knew that Dre didn't want to go to court for Snoop's murder trial, but I always thought he didn't go, or want to go, because he wasn't as good of a friend. I also remember the part about 2pac getting mad about Dre regarding the above as well. But yeah, Idk, it sounds stupid because Dre and Snoop have always been tight since they met on a regular basis, but that's just what my thought process was at the time that I heard all this go down.

I'm not doing researches as I follow hip-hop really closely from like '92 or something so everything I write here is based on what I've read during that period of time.
Snoop's case was really well documented by the way. It was on TV pretty often, not like the O.J.'s case but still.
Dre discovered Snoop & made him what he is, he loved him from day one when Warren got him to his studio. If Dre could help Snoop with the case he would've done it for sure, but what Suge wanted from him was more than idiotic. Snoop knew it too, even though after Dre left Death Row, him & Snoop were kinda on bad terms, Snoop never really went at Dre unlike Pac.

Never knew that Suge beat up Warren G either, wow, that's crazy. Very interesting, crazy stuff, if you think about it. And yeah, I knew Dre was part-owner of Death Row, with Suge, and that he was dicked over financially, but until a few days ago, I didn't realize (in the outro of Still D.R.E.) Snoop's wordplay there regarding the 95 plus 4 pennies part. That's probably the only good wordplay Snoop's ever had in his career, assuming he wrote that part.

Suge was forcing everyone if it was about him getting money... many of them cats have been forced to sign contracts & have told about it later on. Pac was fucked up with his contract as well. At some point he wanted to leave... this is part of the second version for his death I was talking to you in the first paragraph.
Snoop was rapping as a God back then, I always loved his shit but you are right... he was never a crazy lyricist, really. As a matter a fact you probably know that the pen behind the whole G-Funk crew is The D.O.C. who's partially written even for Pac too.
D.R. was a common way of how Death Row rappers were calling their label back then so that was exactly what Snoop meant... & Yeah the way he said it was clever even though I've heard many people use similar expressions on the regular. (like 2005 & a bag of money, 2010 & broke, 3 years & running, 2000 & late etc. etc.)

[Man In The Mirror]

Vintage Sticky for you Sticky-haters: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_NjVY8ADLo

[Dr. Shady]

that shit is classic...hell yeah...

[Francesco]

Vintage Sticky for you Sticky-haters: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_NjVY8ADLo

that shit is classic...hell yeah...

Yeah it defines his unique style... I always liked that about him. Sticky's Black trash is a fucking masterpiece & Onyx in their pinnacle were outta this world. I loved that grimmy shit esp. back in the 90's when hip-hop was harder than fuck. That Shut 'em down record was crazy too, like Onyx weren't grimmy enough so they added DMX on it too!

[Man In The Mirror]

I agree with every word you just said
Onyx forever!
Have you guys heard Sticky's guestverse on Biohazards song New World Disorder?
That is grimy as hell!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJcHSUY5Rls

[Francesco]

The least grimmy song Sticky ever had is ironically What if I was white which happens to be the other song Sticky & EM did together.

[SliK]

Francesco I think you are literally the dumbest member on this forum but I have to give you props on your hip hop knowledge, it's solid

[Francesco]

Francesco I think you are literally the dumbest member on this forum but I have to give you props on your hip hop knowledge, it's solid

Thanks man. I guess you just can't live without me anymore. I'm sorry if I've hurt your feelings anyway.
You didn't really make sense though... yet again. You contradicted yourself in a single sentence... but then you could be ''trolling'' again so I'll be careful.
Thanks for the compliment again.