TES is Definitely His Best Overall

[Eedee]

MMLP for me TES is 2nd.

Nothing comes close to MMLP for me.

I honestly prefer My Beautiful Dark Twisted fantasy to The Eminem Show. Kanye did one better with everything (except rhyming) on that album.

I don't think he did better in any regard.

He's nowhere near the lyricist, forget rhyming - just lyrics period - ideas, thoughts, wit, emotion... on no level does the album come near TES in any lyrical, conceptual or thematic regard.

Also, the theme, imagery and concept are all more solid and memorable to me.

And, the production may be grander on MBDTF but that doesn't make it better... the only beat which really sticks in my head like an Em beat from it is... well "Gorgeous" and "Hell of a Life", so maybe like two or three - the album is grandiose and ambitious, and i love that, but he's nowhere near as concise or interesting with his themes or perspectives, or as intelligent or sharp.

And it's not as consistent.

I agree. I listened to MDBTF the other day for the first time and nothing blew me away like TES did. Kanye's production is pretty legit though. But Em is on his level, IMO with TES in terms of making a coherent and cohesive 'sound'. Em is better at everything else, hands down.

[VictorVerzion5]

I definetley agree....but off topic for a sec, what kind of speakers did you get, I am looking for some currently.

Anyways, I have always appreciated TES more than SSLP and MMLP, because not only do I feel that overall it had the most "hit" songs at the time, but it also showed a more mature Eminem while still maintaining that immature side. I also think the beats were great, and I still listen to them to this day with a smile on my face. His flow and lyrics are also on point as well like you said, but what I really love on this is the way he can go from Cleanin Out My Closet, to Drips then Without Me, then Superman, then Till I Collapse. Those are totally different themed songs with different attitudes. I also think the skits were great too.

Yep but they all feel consistent and of the same family right?

Due to fact of the rap style and the production.

Which is the point I always make with "Beautiful" ruining 'Relapse' for me. Nothing to do with the theme or subject-matter... he's always been all over the place... well actually, SSLP and MMLP both had very consistent tones throughout BUT... the reason TES feels SO consistent is the production, and that's also why 'Recovery' feels so INconsistent.

'Relapse' I'd say feels even more consistent up until that track, because the style is so particular and Dre's production is so unique that they just create this magic, unheard combination that is totally of its own world. Then you're taking out of that world by a 2005-2007 hybrid rap-rock ballad.

Which is why I hope more than anything that for the new album... he makes sure of two things:

1. The production is consistent and of a certain style THROUGHOUT. Not this-and-that.

2. His rap style(s) are of the same family and there's no old tracks for other albums.

I hope those two things more than anything else. Because now more than ever he makes his styles so particular as it gets harder and harder to sound different from before, so it seems now... a track of a different family or with unfitting production stands out more than ever and ruins the overall effect.

I definetley agree with all of your statements, that is why I am hoping that his next album will sound like The Eminem Show Part 2 on a whole different subject matter, but still the same concept. Bringing us something old but also something new so it won't sound like it was the same thing from 2002. The production on this album I feel like it was something different from the Dre beats even though there were some on there, the vibe you got when you listened to the songs was a lot different also because those beats hit you hard thinking "wow this is some serious shit" or if it was a funny beat like Without Me "this is quite enjoyable". Like on the Marhshall Mathers LP and the Slim Shady LP, they all had sort of a theme, and to me personally it seemed like the beats stayed with the theme, but the beats weren't variated like they could've been. That is what The Eminem Show gained. The Eminem Show still had the same theme, but it also was able to variate with different sounding beats that kept with the theme. And like I said before too, on the MMLP and the SSLP, the stuff he was talking about was comedy and then serious stuff, when on The Eminem Show, he found a way to mix those both in to create something that not only looked great on paper, but sounded great as well. He also had the balls to do something different and not keep that same "Slim Shady" character in terms of slapping bitches and choking whores like on "98 Bonnie and Clyde" and "Kill You". This album made me feel like Eminem was really trying to help out his listeners, trying to make them relate to him and if they had stupid ass parents or stupid ass relatives who they used to look up to, they can just pop the record on and it can make them feel good but at the same time teach them a lesson or two about life.

[King Lance]

MMLP for me TES is 2nd.

Nothing comes close to MMLP for me.

I honestly prefer My Beautiful Dark Twisted fantasy to The Eminem Show. Kanye did one better with everything (except rhyming) on that album.

I have the same opinion

TMMLP > mbdtf >> tes

MBDTF is probably one of the most cohesive albums tbh. Eminem is a better rapper but I think that Kanye is a better artist and the key characteristic of MBDTF for me is its grandiosity.

[SliK]

Production is a lot better on MBDTF but that's hard to argue because it really is the most subjective category. I don't know how you can say Em's production is better, it's really not. Musically Kanye is miles above Eminem.

And cohesion? You have Obie's verse on Drips, Say what you say and When the Music Stops that stick out like a sore thumb. Say what you Say if forgettable as shit as has the most boring beat.

Songs like My Dad's Gone Crazy are nonsensical and pointless (except the last verse, but this song feels like 3 verses pasted together) so overall MBDTF is more cohesive than TES.

I agree that Eminem is better at many things, like his flow and rhyming. Songs like Til I Collapse and Sing for the Moment are incredible and two of the best rap songs ever.

But Kanye had Gorgeous, Runaway, Blame Game which are fucking brilliant too, and they are all linked by songs that flow so well. You can't honestly say TES is more cohesive with the crappy songs/verses I mentioned above.

[King Lance]

MBDTF is so cohesive that it sounds cinematic

[EminemBase]

MMLP for me TES is 2nd.

Nothing comes close to MMLP for me.

I honestly prefer My Beautiful Dark Twisted fantasy to The Eminem Show. Kanye did one better with everything (except rhyming) on that album.

I have the same opinion

TMMLP > mbdtf >> tes

MBDTF is probably one of the most cohesive albums tbh. Eminem is a better rapper but I think that Kanye is a better artist and the key characteristic of MBDTF for me is its grandiosity.

Kanye is more expansive now, he sets his sights bigger...

But no way is he a better artist.

MMLP is a masterpiece and greater than Kanye's catalogue combined.

Em was a compelling genius, Kanye isn't near that. He's just interesting, and awesome.

[Eedee]

I think Childish Gambino's "Camp" is more cinematic than MBDTF.

[Rattle1]

My beautiful dark twisted fantasy is better than MMLP & TES IMO.

The diversity of the album is, to be honest, quite unusual for a hip-hop album, especially in the mainstream. Every song has it’s own identity, while still maintaining and giving the album a sound.
The beats are, as with every Kanye-album, a huge part of MBDTF’s appeal. And are hugely responsible for my point above. His creative use of samples and incredibly detailed production makes sure I notice something new about the album for almost every listen.

If you ask me, MBDTF is better than all the other great albums released these last years, mbdtf > The Marshall Mathers LP, Get Rich Or Die Tryin, The Eminem Show, The Documentary, The Cool, Food And Liquor, Good Kid Maad City, Channel Orange, The Ecstatic, The Renaissance

[EminemBase]

^ If you truly think that... I'd suggest you go back and play "Stan", "Criminal" or... the whole album.

Production wise, yes it's grandiose and magnificent... everything-else wise? NO.

In every other regard it's fairly typical. There are moments of lyrical brilliance but no outstanding concepts, no overall theme apart from the rather ridiculous narrative of the short-film paired with it and it's mostly Kanye just whining about fame or race relations, which you could argue Em does on MMLP but Em's wit and approach with it all is PROFOUNDLY more unique and genius that Kanye's. Like, seriously not even close.

MMLP is a genius album. Apart from the production - there's nothing truly outstanding about MBDTF, the song concepts aren't anything special, his themes are typical, you've got the odd witty line but nothing special, it's a great album - not a groundbreaking one.

On MMLP, Em is the greatest auteur the genre has seen, with wit reaching comedian-levels, political commentary done skillfully and intelligently (and much more so than Kanye's heavyhanded attempts), unique and brilliant concepts galore, unparalleled storytelling and voice acting ("Stan")... it's just another level. And the album's concept is far more brilliant and coherent than Kanye's too. No comparison.

I think people get short-sighted and it's easy for something to fade or to take it for granted...

But I'm saying all this as a fan of Kanye, and having just listened to MMLP in recent times... just, no. Lol.

[Eedee]

My beautiful dark twisted fantasy is better than MMLP & TES IMO.

The diversity of the album is, to be honest, quite unusual for a hip-hop album, especially in the mainstream. Every song has it’s own identity, while still maintaining and giving the album a sound.
The beats are, as with every Kanye-album, a huge part of MBDTF’s appeal. And are hugely responsible for my point above. His creative use of samples and incredibly detailed production makes sure I notice something new about the album for almost every listen.

And TES doesn't?

[Eedee]

I like Encore more than MBDTF, it is just an opinion so don't get upset.

Yeah me too. I cant get into Kanye's music for some reason.

He's a rapper who can barely rhyme... That's my biggest problem with him.

[King Lance]

@ bigray & Miller

Just because you didn't enjoy an album personally doesn't mean that you can't see it's strengths.
You enjoy Encore the most but do you really think that encore > MBDTF ???

[Blu]

You can say you don't like the album but you can't say Encore is better than it because that's false in every way possible.

[King Lance]

@ bigray & Miller

Just because you didn't enjoy an album personally doesn't mean that you can't see it's strengths.
You enjoy Encore the most but do you really think that encore > MBDTF ???

Well music is 100% subjective and I enjoy Encore more so I do think Encore > MBDTF.

I agree but I think that some things aren't really subjective at all.
Objectivity is an unrealistic goal for sure but when I review an album, I think that I have to talk about its content, the cohesiveness, the lyrics, the production, the originality, the flaws, etc.
For example, there are a lot of albums that I don't like listening to but still, I think that these albums are "great"

I don't have any problem with the fact that you don't like Mbdtf ( or that you think it's a bad album), I just highly disagree with what you said about subjectivity.

Let's say that we just disagree about that , I don't want to talk about that the whole night lol .
To each his own I guess

[Eedee]

You'd rather listen to My First Single than Bohemian Rhapsody? We can't be friends.

Ok