"Old Em" vs "New Em" (My Theory)

[ladelsofgravy]

Generally, a lot of people prefer the "Old Em" (1998-2003) over the "New Em" (2008-2013). Why? Perhaps he was newer, more innovative, less of an insider. But there's more than that.


My theory: New Em is no worse than Old Em (and in many ways shows evolution), but Old Em is MORE COHESIVE.

Music is an industry where cohesion matters above all. The Beatles, individually, are unremarkable, but the way they assemble every single aspect of their music is quite remarkable.

New Em has displayed he is just as capable, if not better, in every single aspect: lyricism, wit, delivery, flow, hooks, etc. But it feels like each song sacrifices something, whereas most of the songs on the Eminem Show had all of those things without sacrificing any of them.

Berzerk and Rap God is a prime example of this. Berzerk had an amazing chorus and functional verses, whereas Rap God had skillful verses with a forgettable chorus.

Or do we look at Relapse and Recovery? Relapse had the lyricism with no real message and Recovery's songs had more message to them but sometimes suffered lyrically.

[4Corners]

Biggest difference is Em can't seem to put a whole album out now without something wrong with it, where as nearly EVERYTHING he released from 1997-2002 was fucking incredible.

Encore had some gems, had some decent stuff......but also had the absolute worst shit he's EVER official released too.

Re Up and Curtain Call stuff was hit and miss. Had some good shit there like When I'm Gone, No Apologies, Public Enemy #1, and some horrendous shit like Fack, You Don't Know, Jimmy Crack Corn, etc.

Relapse had some dope stuff, but he had a stupid accent 90% of the time, and a lot of songs were meh to a lot of people. I still maintain had he only done the full blown accent on 2-3 songs, and done the hint of the accent but in a more normal voice like Elevator, Deja Vu, Music Box, it would have been better received by the masses.

Recovery had some real good shit too, but had his worst production and beat selection he's ever had. Also had more weak choruses than ever before.

Hell the Sequel was the closest he's come to getting it all right IMO. He went HAM on Wlecome 2 Hell, Fast Lane, Above the Law, Loud Noises, Living Proof. He had a couple comedic and funny songs too like Reunion and I'm On Everything. Even the girl choruses worked well on Above the Law and Echo. But...........the shit still had Lighters and Take From Me, which weren't too good IMO.

I don't see MMLP2 being perfect like his earlier shit either. Survival is meh, whack hook and beat. Berzerk beat has grown on me, the hook is dope, but the lyrics are whack for the most part IMO. It's just alright at best IMO. Rap God is off the charts lyrically, but the beat is weak.

[ladelsofgravy]

I really like the Rap God hook tbh. One of Relapse's main praises around here is how cohesive it is. So that would really only be like 1 album in my opinion. But I'm also not one of the heavier critics of new Em so I might be bias idk. I can appreciate the idea though I see what you're saying.

Relapse is consistent and cohesive. It's flaws are moreso fundamental than surgical. The accents did hurt it a bit and there was a lot of filler content.

The Eminem Show, unlike Relapse, displayed all of Em's best qualities, whereas Relapse only displayed some of them.

[ladelsofgravy]

Biggest difference is Em can't seem to put a whole album out now without something wrong with it, where as nearly EVERYTHING he released from 1997-2002 was fucking incredible.

Encore had some gems, had some decent stuff......but also had the absolute worst shit he's EVER official released too.

Re Up and Curtain Call stuff was hit and miss. Had some good shit there like When I'm Gone, No Apologies, Public Enemy #1, and some horrendous shit like Fack, You Don't Know, Jimmy Crack Corn, etc.

Relapse had some dope stuff, but he had a stupid accent 90% of the time, and a lot of songs were meh to a lot of people. I still maintain had he only done the full blown accent on 2-3 songs, and done the hint of the accent but in a more normal voice like Elevator, Deja Vu, Music Box, it would have been better received by the masses.

Recovery had some real good shit too, but had his worst production and beat selection he's ever had. Also had more weak choruses than ever before.

Hell the Sequel was the closest he's come to getting it all right IMO. He went HAM on Wlecome 2 Hell, Fast Lane, Above the Law, Loud Noises, Living Proof. He had a couple comedic and funny songs too like Reunion and I'm On Everything. Even the girl choruses worked well on Above the Law and Echo. But...........the shit still had Lighters and Take From Me, which weren't too good IMO.

I don't see MMLP2 being perfect like his earlier shit either. Survival is meh, whack hook and beat. Berzerk beat has grown on me, the hook is dope, but the lyrics are whack for the most part IMO. It's just alright at best IMO. Rap God is off the charts lyrically, but the beat is weak.

Yeah, Encore was mixed. But at the same time it showed all facets of Eminem. Yeah, not in any particular individual song, but as a whole. Making it the direct opposite of Relapse.

[Shady50]

I'll always love Em no matter what, but he was pretty much flawless from 1999-2003. Even though Encore gets trashed, at least it felt like him being his natural self. I think these days he tries a little too hard instead of just letting his words flow naturally, but I'm really just thankful that he even came back and we still get dope shit out of him.

[Legacy12]

I believe that Eminem has almost become too good of an artist for his own good. For example, he is such an amazing song writer, and his delivery can be better than any other rapper, that it leads him to experiment with new things on each album.

Eminem - in my opinion - got bored with his original style after his first few CD's. He started experimenting with different beats, different delivery styles (even adding an entire CD of "accents"), etc. I believe he thinks he needs to change things up.

The issue has become that his fans from the 90's expect him to continue sounding the same as he did back then. He is too good, and wants to challenge himself, to spend his entire career doing the same thing. The down side to that is that most of his fans only like certain CD's (or certain years) due to his ever-changing style.

The one thing that has never changed is Eminem's amazing ability to write and rhyme lyrics unlike anyone else.

[4Corners]

My only wish for new Em is that he would flow like he does on Underground, Ridaz, So Bad, On Fire, Shady 2.0 Cypher, 2011 Westwood freestyle, almost all the time. I just hope MMLP2 has some stuff where he calms down and flows a little more natural.

[skc_]

flow is the thing that has suffered most. He used to flow so much better in 2000. Lyrics are still pretty good, but different. Beats are also worse, not sure why he picks those, tho, guess he has just a different taste over the time.
Also +1 to what the guy above me says.

[Legacy12]

I really like the Rap God hook tbh. One of Relapse's main praises around here is how cohesive it is. So that would really only be like 1 album in my opinion. But I'm also not one of the heavier critics of new Em so I might be bias idk. I can appreciate the idea though I see what you're saying.

Could you elaborate on this? I have seen the word "cohesive" several times in this thread and am not sure what's meant by it. I know what the word means but am not certain I understand the context in which it's consistently being used.

[4Corners]

flow is the thing that has suffered most. He used to flow so much better in 2000. Lyrics are still pretty good, but different. Beats are also worse, not sure why he picks those, tho, guess he has just a different taste over the time.
Also +1 to what the guy above me says.

I still like new Eminem, shit I still like 60% of Encore. But it's not quite as dope as he earlier stuff.

When he tones down the sound, like the stuff mentioned, I mean it sounds dope.

A big reason I still have faith in MMLP2 is because Rap God was pretty dope flow wise still, and off the chart lyrically and in regard to wordplay, and because the last official thing he put out, Hell the Sequel, was DOPE.

[CiNDeReLLa_MaN]

The Eminem Show is GOAT. Literally does everything right on this album, and a sequel would be DOPE if he does it right.
Encore has nasty production, and it is my 2nd favorite album, but shit like Big Weenie is awful lol.
Relapse is sick lyrically, but like people above me said, the accents kill the album for me.
Recovery has more likable songs, but the production is definitely not Eminem standard.

[ladelsofgravy]

My only wish for new Em is that he would flow like he does on Underground, Ridaz, So Bad, On Fire, Shady 2.0 Cypher, 2011 Westwood freestyle, almost all the time. I just hope MMLP2 has some stuff where he calms down and flows a little more natural.

That's the issue. On those songs his flow is awesome, yet his songs lack a MESSAGE.

For example, Like Toy Soldiers or Sing For The Moment have both the flow AND the message.

[Corpse_Welder]

I'd have to disagree with a few things. "Old Em" would have been the up and coming broke father who had no option but to succeed with rap. IE, that phase ended with MMLP, not eminem show. By TES he was world famous and RICH. You have to remember when he wrote MMLP there was almost zero controversy surrounding his name. It was just us hardcore fans of SSLP that spread his name around. So MMLP comes out and he becomes a household name, but I'll tell you the difference between new and old Em. Old Eminem was mysterious and he seemed legitimately dangerous. He had a fire in his voice that made him seem like he would kill someone. Gangster rappers might shoot you, but Em seemed like he would cut you in pieces and burn the body parts. New Em has let us in, showing vulnerability and fears, making him human. '97-'01 Eminem was also legitimately angry at the world. What does he have to be angry about now? He made it, he never has to work another day if he doesn"t want. Vulnerability doesn't make him worse, but it takes away that vicarious thrill of listening to Kill You for the first time.

Sorry for the novel

[ladelsofgravy]

corpse. i break new and old by hiatus.

[SliK]

I'd have to disagree with a few things. "Old Em" would have been the up and coming broke father who had no option but to succeed with rap. IE, that phase ended with MMLP, not eminem show. By TES he was world famous and RICH. You have to remember when he wrote MMLP there was almost zero controversy surrounding his name. It was just us hardcore fans of SSLP that spread his name around. So MMLP comes out and he becomes a household name, but I'll tell you the difference between new and old Em. Old Eminem was mysterious and he seemed legitimately dangerous. He had a fire in his voice that made him seem like he would kill someone. Gangster rappers might shoot you, but Em seemed like he would cut you in pieces and burn the body parts. New Em has let us in, showing vulnerability and fears, making him human. '97-'01 Eminem was also legitimately angry at the world. What does he have to be angry about now? He made it, he never has to work another day if he doesn"t want. Vulnerability doesn't make him worse, but it takes away that vicarious thrill of listening to Kill You for the first time.

Sorry for the novel

Wrong, the MMLP was a response to all the controversy surrounding his name