MMLP2 represents the MMLP well

[EminemBase]

Embase and Hawk, you guys think survival fits in well? I think it doesn't fit in well at all, its so out of place imo and I'm surprised how well the monster fit in, it totally shocked me.

When I play the album I actually feel that "Survival" flows fine...

But I'd rather MMLP2 didn't have it, or 'Monster'.

[momentsgolden]

I loved Survival when it dropped and hoped that SOMEHOW it would fit the album without it being a Recovery 2 soundwise. Really glad that happened. Its a great song despite all the hate it gets here. Watching That song live should be an epic experience.

[kpprasa]

I don't understand how MMLP2 is imbalanced bar the Interscope-singles.

Headlights and STIW may be the antipathy of Kim, but they are balanced in showing his current state of mind.

This is emphasised in Bad Guy's last verse.

Whilst hearing a lyrical shit storm like brainless before STIW seems like a 180, it is still Em being honest. Just because his feelings aren't anger does not mean the album is imbalanced.

SSLP is the best example. Rock Bottom and If I Had are like polar opposites of SDGAF et al in terms of style and delivery, but they still present Em's thoughts.
He has always done this.
The MMLP is unique in the sense that it lacks a soft-feeling track. This isn't to say that Kim lacks emotion, but you are focusing too much on the sonic style, rather than what Em is actually saying.

Huh? When did I say MMLP 2 is imbalanced?... that's my point lol.

MMLP 1 isss Imbalanced and that's what makes it MMLP. It's intentionally singleminded and lacking balance, it feels like an attack in one direction.

MMLP 2 is a balanced album, which breaks its feel from the original.

And you are right about SSLP - where is that track on MMLP 1?

I defy you to name that balance on MMLP 1. You won't be able to. Because that is what separates MMLP and what makes MMLP unique. He had a single artistic vision and was fearless in executing it start to finish with no insecurity or need to satisfy different potential listener groups.

And this is the main point everybody seems to be glossing over / missing about the original.

I agree with EmBase in this regard. The MMLP is the most laser-focused album I have ever heard. Consistent theme etc. I believe that the reason it's so cohesive is the fact that he recorded it in 2 months, whereas the MMLP2 was recorded over about 2 and a half years.

However, I think I disagree with Embase on what defines a good album. In my mind an album should be judged based upon how well the collection of songs represent the artist's feelings, emotions, or mindstate during that timeframe of his life- which I think they both do excellently. I believe Embase (correct me if I'm wrong) believes that an album should focus on one topic that the author wishes to share with his listeners. Another way of looking at it is that I (and many members on here), judge an album based upon individual songs, while Embase (again correct me) judges an album based upon its overall sound. Just a difference in opinion.

Guys, stop ripping into Embase, he just views albums differently than some. His way IS more artistic and professional; although, I still prefer my way.

Anyways I think we all agree that this album is at least in his top 4, while many will consider it in his top 3. Long ass rant

[_Hawk_]

I meant balance in terms of the mindset.

You are missing my point.

The MMLP was a reactionary album. So is the MMLP2.
The mindset that Em was in when he made it is contemporary to that period. It just so happens that the middle-fingers to the world exemplified everything in the album. It glued because it wasn't a multifaceted period in his life. His ambition to prove his critics wrong was the prevailing motivation. He had to cement his spot in the rap game.

Em's mindset with MMLP2 is also reactionary, but in a different way.
He had to flip those middle fingers back to his Magnum Opus and escape those demons. But there are a lot more existential implications; he has to combat his critics, he has to stay true to himself, but he can't just put on a MMLP and go back into a character that he isn't.
So whilst you say the MMLP2 doesn't show a single-minded approach, I completely disagree. The album shows an enormous level of maturity and assurance in knowing what he is doing with it.
Every track serves a purpose. Even the interscope ones fit the mindset, but sonically they feel out of place (survival and the monster specifically).


I don't think we are missing your point at all. You are missing our point.
The fact is that Eminem writes his albums from a mindset, but finds a balance of tracks on all of them. MMLP had the exact same balance. It is his most honest representation of himself, just as MMLP was.

[ShadyTillIDie72]

I totally agree absolutely love the album

[kpprasa]

I meant balance in terms of the mindset.

You are missing my point.

The MMLP was a reactionary album. So is the MMLP2.
The mindset that Em was in when he made it is contemporary to that period. It just so happens that the middle-fingers to the world exemplified everything in the album. It glued because it wasn't a multifaceted period in his life. His ambition to prove his critics wrong was the prevailing motivation. He had to cement his spot in the rap game.

Em's mindset with MMLP2 is also reactionary, but in a different way.
He had to flip those middle fingers back to his Magnum Opus and escape those demons. But there are a lot more existential implications; he has to combat his critics, he has to stay true to himself, but he can't just put on a MMLP and go back into a character that he isn't.
So whilst you say the MMLP2 doesn't show a single-minded approach, I completely disagree. The album shows an enormous level of maturity and assurance in knowing what he is doing with it.
Every track serves a purpose. Even the interscope ones fit the mindset, but sonically they feel out of place (survival and the monster specifically).


I don't think we are missing your point at all. You are missing our point.
The fact is that Eminem writes his albums from a mindset, but finds a balance of tracks on all of them. MMLP had the exact same balance. It is his most honest representation of himself, just as MMLP was.

This line right here

[EminemBase]

I don't understand how MMLP2 is imbalanced bar the Interscope-singles.

Headlights and STIW may be the antipathy of Kim, but they are balanced in showing his current state of mind.

This is emphasised in Bad Guy's last verse.

Whilst hearing a lyrical shit storm like brainless before STIW seems like a 180, it is still Em being honest. Just because his feelings aren't anger does not mean the album is imbalanced.

SSLP is the best example. Rock Bottom and If I Had are like polar opposites of SDGAF et al in terms of style and delivery, but they still present Em's thoughts.
He has always done this.
The MMLP is unique in the sense that it lacks a soft-feeling track. This isn't to say that Kim lacks emotion, but you are focusing too much on the sonic style, rather than what Em is actually saying.

Huh? When did I say MMLP 2 is imbalanced?... that's my point lol.

MMLP 1 isss Imbalanced and that's what makes it MMLP. It's intentionally singleminded and lacking balance, it feels like an attack in one direction.

MMLP 2 is a balanced album, which breaks its feel from the original.

And you are right about SSLP - where is that track on MMLP 1?

I defy you to name that balance on MMLP 1. You won't be able to. Because that is what separates MMLP and what makes MMLP unique. He had a single artistic vision and was fearless in executing it start to finish with no insecurity or need to satisfy different potential listener groups.

And this is the main point everybody seems to be glossing over / missing about the original.

I agree with EmBase in this regard. The MMLP is the most laser-focused album I have ever heard. Consistent theme etc. I believe that the reason it's so cohesive is the fact that he recorded it in 2 months, whereas the MMLP2 was recorded over about 2 and a half years.

However, I think I disagree with Embase on what defines a good album. In my mind an album should be judged based upon how well the collection of songs represent the artist's feelings, emotions, or mindstate during that timeframe of his life- which I think they both do excellently. I believe Embase (correct me if I'm wrong) believes that an album should focus on one topic that the author wishes to share with his listeners. Another way of looking at it is that I (and many members on here), judge an album based upon individual songs, while Embase (again correct me) judges an album based upon its overall sound. Just a difference in opinion.

Guys, stop ripping into Embase, he just views albums differently than some. His way IS more artistic and professional; although, I still prefer my way.

Anyways I think we all agree that this album is at least in his top 4, while many will consider it in his top 3. Long ass rant

Nah I don't think an album should be that @ a single set of themes...

I think an album can be anything, the only question is 'does it work' or not.

But MMLP IS that, so if the sequel doesn't share even its most loosely defined foundation... it may as well have its own title entirely / not be connected / implied to be that.

[EminemBase]

I meant balance in terms of the mindset.

You are missing my point.

The MMLP was a reactionary album. So is the MMLP2.
The mindset that Em was in when he made it is contemporary to that period. It just so happens that the middle-fingers to the world exemplified everything in the album. It glued because it wasn't a multifaceted period in his life. His ambition to prove his critics wrong was the prevailing motivation. He had to cement his spot in the rap game.

Em's mindset with MMLP2 is also reactionary, but in a different way.
He had to flip those middle fingers back to his Magnum Opus and escape those demons. But there are a lot more existential implications; he has to combat his critics, he has to stay true to himself, but he can't just put on a MMLP and go back into a character that he isn't.
So whilst you say the MMLP2 doesn't show a single-minded approach, I completely disagree. The album shows an enormous level of maturity and assurance in knowing what he is doing with it.
Every track serves a purpose. Even the interscope ones fit the mindset, but sonically they feel out of place (survival and the monster specifically).


I don't think we are missing your point at all. You are missing our point.
The fact is that Eminem writes his albums from a mindset, but finds a balance of tracks on all of them. MMLP had the exact same balance. It is his most honest representation of himself, just as MMLP was.

Every Eminem album is a reactionary album.

Because Eminem is a reactionary artist, it's how he functions:

SSEP/SSLP/Slim Shady persona = reactionary to people saying he sounded like AZ and Nas on Infinite and criticizing his work for being placid and familiar. This riled Em to create the 'fuck everything attitude' present on "Just Don't Give a Fuck".

Common criticisms in response to SSLP
- Too cartoon-like and slap-happy
- Eminem is a mysoginistic, homophobic, fantasist and bad influence etc.

Em's response: MMLP - more realistic to combat people saying he is cartoony and corny; the violence is brutal and descriptive as apposed to abstract and silly. Also becomes the things people misunderstand him as from his fictional tales and exploits it for a concept.

Common criticisms in response to MMLP
- Shock-value artist
- No real substance beyond provocation

Em's response: TES - Self-serious, relies less on provocation and Em looks more inward and aims for bigger song themes and a more realistic world-view to combat accusations of having to simply provoke the listener. He goes for more thought-provoking tones.

//

You can do this with every single Eminem album.

So saying MMLP2 is a reactionary album, therefore that relates it to MMLP means nothing. Eminem ALWAYS reacts to criticisms of him to fuel his next work.

And no, MMLP did not have that balance. That's the point. And that is what definitively separates it not only from his other albums but from every other rap album in history. Go ahead and find that balance on MMLP then, I welcome you to show me that balance.

Eminem is consistent in his apparent bigotry from start to finish... pretty much the only break in character is his response to "Stan"... which was within a concept. Other than that, every song is a forceful reinforcement of the Eminem myth he was propagating with this album. Every verse of every song houses the same persona throughout the entire album.

And he did this intentionally. MMLP was not an honest portrayal of Eminem, it was Eminem exploiting misunderstanding as the basis for a concept album.

[_Hawk_]

Embase, it was a balanced representation of his thoughts.
MMLP2 is too.

The former follows the same 'balanced' routine: ie, sad song followed by a lively one. That is the balancing act, with the interscope singles thrown in.

I think my previous post said everything. The only reason MMLP2 has tracks like STIW and Headlights is because they are his honest views just as Kim expressed his emotional rage.


I understand your point, but personally the MMLP2 is more singleminded sonically. The album isn't cohesive in terms of production, but the beats are easily distinguishable. You can hum along to them and bump them a lot easier than you can with MMLP2. So Far exemplified this with the I'm Back and RSS samples. I started vibing along to them and almost felt sad I wasn't doing the same with some of the tracks on this album.

But then I realised I was happy about this. The sonic experience of MMLP2 underlines Em's evolution to where he is now.

I think Eminem has given the MMLP2 more than enough justice.

[kpprasa]

Nah I don't think an album should be that @ a single set of themes...

I think an album can be anything, the only question is 'does it work' or not.

But MMLP IS that, so if the sequel doesn't share even its most loosely defined foundation... it may as well have its own title entirely / not be connected / implied to be that.

I agree actually. I think he did that solely for the reaction that people would get because Em would be creating an album to what many consider his Magnum Opus. Simply put, it worked. Although, I almost wish he did name it something else- It has a tint of MMLP, but he should have named it something else. Regardless it's a dope album.

[Jimmy Conway]

"As much as it is a revisitation – like this is a different time period in my life. So there's not gonna be like, continuations of every song or anything like that. To me, it's more about the vibe and the nostalgia."

Nostalgia

Quote from Me

"He was trying to recapture the passion, dedication, quality, desire, motivation, fun he was having during that time "

He never said he was going to make a cd full of Kill you and criminal 2s. He never said he was going to reference the original every other line.

He references the first album a lot, most of it being subtle.

I can see the revisit in it. And the best thing about it, it doesn't jump right in your face. It doesn't feel desperate. It doesn't feel like someone struggling trying to leech off better times. It feels like someone motivated, older, but smarter, someone wanting to make a album that has that feel of the old Em, one that couldn't mess up. And he's done an amazing job.

He didn't trick us. He didn't promise us anything he didn't come through on.


He looks like MMLP, the album looks like MMLP, the beats, do the sound like MMLP, no, and they shouldn't. Em is progressive. The day he starts beating a dead horse like every other aging MC is the day he should just stay in that mansion and be quiet. He didn't copy the sound. But he did REVIST the quality, the time invested in making the beats fit. Same with the lyrics, he has sprinkled references and quotes everywhere, in a classy way, not a reaching, desperate. But the lyrics have that MMLP fire, that you can tell he spent many hours on.

The MMLP is in this album. But he doesn't allow it to overshadow the man he is now, he just used it to give us one more amazing album.

/Thread

[Kill You]

The Matthew Mitchell LP

[EminemBase]

Embase, it was a balanced representation of his thoughts.
MMLP2 is too.

The former follows the same 'balanced' routine: ie, sad song followed by a lively one. That is the balancing act, with the interscope singles thrown in.

I think my previous post said everything. The only reason MMLP2 has tracks like STIW and Headlights is because they are his honest views just as Kim expressed his emotional rage.


I understand your point, but personally the MMLP2 is more singleminded sonically. The album isn't cohesive in terms of production, but the beats are easily distinguishable. You can hum along to them and bump them a lot easier than you can with MMLP2. So Far exemplified this with the I'm Back and RSS samples. I started vibing along to them and almost felt sad I wasn't doing the same with some of the tracks on this album.

But then I realised I was happy about this. The sonic experience of MMLP2 underlines Em's evolution to where he is now.

I think Eminem has given the MMLP2 more than enough justice.

Show me how MMLP is balanced then? It's not a balanced representation of his thoughts. That's the entire point of MMLP, that he tipped the balanced to the point it's an unrealistic blur between how he really feels / where the fantasy begins.

You think "You think I won't choke no whore till the vocal chords don't work in her throat no more?" is balanced? (this mindset of tongue-in-cheek provocation prevails throughout every single song) Or actually his thoughts?... he's provoking the listener, but he does this on every single verse of every single song of the album. There is no balance. Only winks at the camera.

There is no entire songs of realistic Eminem thoughts. He is in character throughout. He hasn't done that since then, every other album is balanced... Relapse was nearly that same forceful imbalance... MMLP2 is a regular balance; like TES. So no, it is not similar to MMLP in theme or structure - the only thing is shares is a title, and references.

[_Hawk_]

Eminem has the exact same thoughts on MMLP2.

It is just his humour, used as an overriding metaphor for the way rap has evolved in relation to media perception.
He is not in character for TWIA, Marshall Mathers et al. It is all him. Just being himself.

Let us agree to disagree mate. We won't convince each other.

[Kill You]

Eminem even said he and Shady are the same.