Is Eminem Limiting Himself?

[cryonseris]

When is Em going to make a serious album?

Oh. My. God.

Seriously, just ban this troll. The spirit of faggot flows through him.

[Hamza1972]

When is Em going to make a serious album?

Oh. My. God.

Seriously, just ban this troll. The spirit of faggot flows through him.

[VINTAGƎ]

And I'm not saying we need an entire album of SFTM/LY songs, I'm just calling for more balance both in content and in style. Just like that accent worked really well for some songs and not for others, this super technical shit works for some songs and not others.

I don't want this to be the Eminem from here on out. Super technical, forcing lines, trying to prove himself on every verse. He doesn't need to. Like I said, I think the reception to Encore and Relapse fucked with his head big time.

There are songs that he's made since his comeback that just scream "respect me!," "like me!," "i'm still good!," and he doesn't have to do that. I don't know who he's trying to convince. You can't please everybody but that seems to be his goal. To be so technically advanced that anyone who hates on him is just a clear hater. He wants unanimous respect and that's not happening.

I understand what you're saying but maybe he just can't do it? We've all heard recovery. That was a serious album like TES and no one on here likes it. However, he had concept songs (25 to life - even tho its pretty much a rip of Common's track). But maybe he has realised that he can't produce songs like LY anymore so wants to focus much more on his technical ability. I agree with you, I hope he creates more tracks like TIC and SFTM in the future but he's probably scared of trying to and the album sucking.

No one here likes Recovery but I believe it's one of his highest selling albums, one of his more critically acclaimed albums, and got more Grammy noms than any of his other ones. I may be wrong but I think most of what I said is accurate. Again, regardless of how people feel about Recovery and whether or not they prefer Relapse, they have to admit -- every Eminem fan has to admit Relapse 2 would have ended his career. Maybe not in some epic way where we never hear from him again, but he probably would have been a Dr Dre level of a recluse, doubting his material and taking tracks off his album, pushing it back, etc.

Recovery had to happen. He knew it, the label knew it, most of his fans know it.

I think there are several factors in play here that have shaped current Eminem.

For starters, his first three albums all built on each other. Slim Shady was mainly demo/underground type of raps. Filled with clever lines and a hungry persona, but not a very focused record in terms of content. Yeah he had Rock Bottom and a few others, but the majority was him just showcasing skills.

Marshall Mathers showed us a personal side and a more cohesive album. An album that stuck to the topics he wanted to talk about. This wasn't about "let's see how many clever lines I can make," this was, I'm pissed at critics, pissed at my ex wife, my mom, my over aggressive fans who won't let me live a normal life, people that doubt my skills because of my skin color. Fuck these people.

Eminem Show took it to the next level by having large scale themes. Where MMLP would be about his personal struggles, he started writing about politics (Square Dance, White America), the power of music (SFTM), overcoming odds and motivating yourself (TIC) -- these were broader, larger, more relatable themes. Add in the fact he produced pretty much all of it, creating a signature sound in the process.

He was growing and maturing as an artist, and his fans were growing with him. Then, the stress from the fame, all the beefs, the drug use, etc burned him out. Instead of following up with a mature, personal album, he went in the opposite direction and made a joke album. It bombed.

He appears to think it's mainly because he wasn't sharp lyrically. That's why it bombed. He also thinks fans want that horrorcore shit he was known for in his early days. So he puts out Relapse, which was highly technical, but it bombed critically for the same reason Encore did. Content. Fans were past that horrorcore shit. Yes, they appreciated the improved technical skill but the album was largely unrelatable.

That's two strikes. He planned to put out a Relapse 2, but he clearly sees that won't work, and I'm sure the label told him that as well. What does he do? Puts out the safest, most accessible album of his career, and fans and critics alike eat it up. No accents, no weird content, just relatable topics. Overcoming obstacles, relationships, etc.

In overcoming his addiction to drugs, he picked up other habits and stuck to them. First, crazy workout regiments to lose the weight he had put on. Running 17 miles a day and shit. And musically, he was addicted, and still is, to being technical. That's his new addiction, his new fixation. Being technical. He has shown throughout his career to overkill shit and this is no different.

While I enjoy a good majority of MMLP 2 (only 3 songs I skip) the technical stuff has reached overkill.

He has shown that he can transcend the genre but he'd much rather stick to super technical stuff to show how much better he is than other rappers. He could be doing so much more.

[kkaniff]

And I repeat, name the songs on which he's being overly technical.

[VINTAGƎ]

What are the songs on MMLP2 that you feel he's too focused on technical rhyming in?

Legacy as I mentioned which, even though I love it and feel it's one of the better songs, the fact he felt he needed to put himself in a box where every line had to rhyme with talkin/walkman/often/etc takes away from how great it could have been. Having free reign could have made the song better.

Asshole is way too crammed with lyrics. When you read them, a lot of them are really good, but he just stuffed the song with them and it took away from the overall theme of the song. Slow down, cut some of the lines out, have a smoother, slower flow, and the song is probably better.

Love Game, another song I enjoyed, didn't have to be that technical. Lose some of that shit and it's still a funny and catchy song.

[kkaniff]

So, 3 songs out if 16?
I strongly disagree about the rhyme scheme being detrimental to Legacy btw, I can give reasons why it adds to the beauty of the song, can you give reasons why it removes from it?
Also don't agree with Love Game, I can also give reasons.

[VINTAGƎ]

So, 3 songs out if 16?
I strongly disagree about the rhyme scheme being detrimental to Legacy btw, I can give reasons why it adds to the beauty of the song, can you give reasons why it removes from it?
Also don't agree with Love Game, I can also give reasons.

Desperation, Beautiful Pain didn't have to be as technical as they were either.

And you're asking me what songs I felt were unnecessarily technical but almost every song is technical.

Rap God is but I love it. Rhyme Or Reason is but I love it, etc.

The majority of the album is extremely technical, and like I said, some of them work, some of them don't.

That's also, one part of the bigger topic and reason for this thread, and that is -- is Eminem limiting himself by only trying to compete with his fellow rapper as opposed to focusing on being an overall music icon period. Why win rap album of the year when you can win album of the year, you know?

That's my issue. He has all the gifts needed to do that but instead decides to stay in a box.

[VINTAGƎ]

Oh and, as far as Legacy -- why I feel it holds the song back? Because he's restricting his lines. He can only write lyrics that maintain the same rhyme.

Suppose for example he wanted to say something about how his legacy isn't as respected as some of his peers because he's white? Or something else personal or profound?

"My legacy's ignored often, critics cross me --
Off, because my skin color is cream and not coffee"

"Hmmm, na. That's not gonna work. Alright forget the race stuff. Save that for another song or something."

There's only so many words that rhyme with the words he used. While he gets props for being creative, it restricts him because now he can only say things that rhyme with that one word.

If he sheds that restriction, who knows what we get.

[Hopsinshadie]

Oh and, as far as Legacy -- why I feel it holds the song back? Because he's restricting his lines. He can only write lyrics that maintain the same rhyme.

Suppose for example he wanted to say something about how his legacy isn't as respected as some of his peers because he's white? Or something else personal or profound?

"My legacy's ignored often, critics cross me --
Off, because my skin color is cream and not coffee"

"Hmmm, na. That's not gonna work. Alright forget the race stuff. Save that for another song or something."

There's only so many words that rhyme with the words he used. While he gets props for being creative, it restricts him because now he can only say things that rhyme with that one word.

If he sheds that restriction, who knows what we get.

Em is very hung up on the technical aspect of rap. He talks about it all the time. But he needs to forget about it and come up with good concepts first and then worry about the technical stuff when revising.

[aog34]

What's crazy is I agree and get what you're saying vintage. I think eminem actually proved his technical wizardry on relapse and refill already an it was so ahead of its time that it's kind of caught a cult like following and appreciation currently. The inner workings of a serial killer theme while playing that angle linguistically is what he was doing and was brilliant. I consider it a concept album from him in full "evil" mode that still amazes me every time.

The em I truly miss and echoes your argument is the "straight forward" conceptual em.
Guilty conscience
Kim
Stan
Lose yourself
Bonnie and Clyde

Songs that weren't caught up in lyrical wizardry but having a "big picture" approach with a story acted out by him talking to you in rhyming Forman while not compromising his flow and his inflections in his voice immolated the emotion perfectly. That is when em is king and cannot be fucked with. I felt bad guy would've been way more effective with that approach.

What you're basically saying is that em should get back into "re-inventing" rap again as opposed to "competing" and step into unchartered territory like he's done in the past with the current scene. I 100% agree.

[VINTAGƎ]

What's crazy is I agree and get what you're saying vintage. I think eminem actually proved his technical wizardry on relapse and refill already an it was so ahead of its time that it's kind of caught a cult like following and appreciation currently. The inner workings of a serial killer theme while playing that angle linguistically is what he was doing and was brilliant. I consider it a concept album from him in full "evil" mode that still amazes me every time.

The em I truly miss and echoes your argument is the "straight forward" conceptual em.
Guilty conscience
Kim
Stan
Lose yourself
Bonnie and Clyde

Songs that weren't caught up in lyrical wizardry but having a "big picture" approach with a story acted out by him talking to you in rhyming Forman while not compromising his flow and his inflections in his voice immolated the emotion perfectly. That is when em is king and cannot be fucked with. I felt bad guy would've been way more effective with that approach.

What you're basically saying is that em should get back into "re-inventing" rap again as opposed to "competing" and step into unchartered territory like he's done in the past with the current scene. I 100% agree.

This is absolutely what I'm saying.

When he's on his songwriting shit, he takes it to a level other rappers can only dream of. Like I said, no one out there, not even the heavy hitters like Kanye and Jay are gonna be making Stan or Lose Yourself anytime soon.

Eminem's body of work speaks for itself. He can get super lyrical. Everybody knows that. He doesn't have to do that.

"Dear mister I'm too good to call or write my fans. This will be the last package I ever send your ass! It's been six months and still no word, I don't deserve it? I know you got the last two letters, I wrote the addresses on them perfect!" is significantly better than "And to think I used to think you was the shit, bitch. To think it was you at one time I worshipped, shit. Think you can hurt people and just keep getting away with, it? Not this time, you better go and get the sewing kit, bitch."

One sounds like an actual pissed off fan writing a letter, the other sounds like a rapper trying to maintain the same lyrical uniform. It takes away from the feeling of the song.

He used to rap like he was talking to his listeners. Now he's like fuck it, I'm gonna make it a point to show off how lyrical I am.

Some songs suffer as a result.

[aog34]

What's crazy is I agree and get what you're saying vintage. I think eminem actually proved his technical wizardry on relapse and refill already an it was so ahead of its time that it's kind of caught a cult like following and appreciation currently. The inner workings of a serial killer theme while playing that angle linguistically is what he was doing and was brilliant. I consider it a concept album from him in full "evil" mode that still amazes me every time.

The em I truly miss and echoes your argument is the "straight forward" conceptual em.
Guilty conscience
Kim
Stan
Lose yourself
Bonnie and Clyde

Songs that weren't caught up in lyrical wizardry but having a "big picture" approach with a story acted out by him talking to you in rhyming Forman while not compromising his flow and his inflections in his voice immolated the emotion perfectly. That is when em is king and cannot be fucked with. I felt bad guy would've been way more effective with that approach.

What you're basically saying is that em should get back into "re-inventing" rap again as opposed to "competing" and step into unchartered territory like he's done in the past with the current scene. I 100% agree.

This is absolutely what I'm saying.

When he's on his songwriting shit, he takes it to a level other rappers can only dream of. Like I said, no one out there, not even the heavy hitters like Kanye and Jay are gonna be making Stan or Lose Yourself anytime soon.

Eminem's body of work speaks for itself. He can get super lyrical. Everybody knows that. He doesn't have to do that.

"Dear mister I'm too good to call or write my fans. This will be the last package I ever send your ass! It's been six months and still no word, I don't deserve it? I know you got the last two letters, I wrote the addresses on them perfect!" is significantly better than "And to think I used to think you was the shit, bitch. To think it was you at one time I worshipped, shit. Think you can hurt people and just keep getting away with, it? Not this time, you better go and get the sewing kit, bitch."

One sounds like an actual pissed off fan writing a letter, the other sounds like a rapper trying to maintain the same lyrical uniform. It takes away from the feeling of the song.

He used to rap like he was talking to his listeners. Now he's like fuck it, I'm gonna make it a point to show off how lyrical I am.

Some songs suffer as a result.

Man. I'm so glad I stumbled onto this forum. People like you understand "music".

Crazy thing is, I think on so far, he came close. I actually heard that again. But the production, while good, didn't fit to me. He needs some good ole Dre back in the mix on the next project with his own and some bass brothers. They just understand how to bring that "thing" out of em. I think a ill concept he could bring to a song currently is his interaction with his daughter being a young adult. Imagine his funny take on hailie going to the prom/college or bringing a boy home and him dealing with it only the way he can? So many angles and greatness untapped.

[VINTAGƎ]

What's crazy is I agree and get what you're saying vintage. I think eminem actually proved his technical wizardry on relapse and refill already an it was so ahead of its time that it's kind of caught a cult like following and appreciation currently. The inner workings of a serial killer theme while playing that angle linguistically is what he was doing and was brilliant. I consider it a concept album from him in full "evil" mode that still amazes me every time.

The em I truly miss and echoes your argument is the "straight forward" conceptual em.
Guilty conscience
Kim
Stan
Lose yourself
Bonnie and Clyde

Songs that weren't caught up in lyrical wizardry but having a "big picture" approach with a story acted out by him talking to you in rhyming Forman while not compromising his flow and his inflections in his voice immolated the emotion perfectly. That is when em is king and cannot be fucked with. I felt bad guy would've been way more effective with that approach.

What you're basically saying is that em should get back into "re-inventing" rap again as opposed to "competing" and step into unchartered territory like he's done in the past with the current scene. I 100% agree.

This is absolutely what I'm saying.

When he's on his songwriting shit, he takes it to a level other rappers can only dream of. Like I said, no one out there, not even the heavy hitters like Kanye and Jay are gonna be making Stan or Lose Yourself anytime soon.

Eminem's body of work speaks for itself. He can get super lyrical. Everybody knows that. He doesn't have to do that.

"Dear mister I'm too good to call or write my fans. This will be the last package I ever send your ass! It's been six months and still no word, I don't deserve it? I know you got the last two letters, I wrote the addresses on them perfect!" is significantly better than "And to think I used to think you was the shit, bitch. To think it was you at one time I worshipped, shit. Think you can hurt people and just keep getting away with, it? Not this time, you better go and get the sewing kit, bitch."

One sounds like an actual pissed off fan writing a letter, the other sounds like a rapper trying to maintain the same lyrical uniform. It takes away from the feeling of the song.

He used to rap like he was talking to his listeners. Now he's like fuck it, I'm gonna make it a point to show off how lyrical I am.

Some songs suffer as a result.

Man. I'm so glad I stumbled onto this forum. People like you understand "music".

Crazy thing is, I think on so far, he came close. I actually heard that again. But the production, while good, didn't fit to me. He needs some good ole Dre back in the mix on the next project with his own and some bass brothers. They just understand how to bring that "thing" out of em. I think a ill concept he could bring to a song currently is his interaction with his daughter being a young adult. Imagine his funny take on hailie going to the prom/college or bringing a boy home and him dealing with it only the way he can? So many angles and greatness untapped.

Thanks man. I mean I'm all over the place when it comes to what I listen to. I'm sure a lot of people on here are mostly hip hop fans and that's cool, and maybe that's why a lot of people are down with the super technical stuff, but a lot of my favorite songs don't even rhyme. Let alone have complex lyrical structures.

I hear some stuff of Em's and I just see him breaking out of the hip hop mold and creating his own signature musical style. He could be doing so much more given his attention to musical detail but he seems content with:

Someone else's beat + super lyrical verse + sampled hook or guest singer + super lyrical verse + hook + super lyrical verse + hook

He can totally break out and expriment with a different formula and hopefully he does that at some point.

He has too much musical knowledge and skill to just focus on one aspect (technical), especially since he's shown an ability to do much more than that early on in his career.

[Hopsinshadie]

Vintage is the truth. Honesty is a virtue. GOAT poster YO. Keep getting your post on!!

[unbound88]

its like 4 am so i'm not going to reply to this now but I read thru all 6 pages, really great topic OP and important as well, I'll try and post some of my own opinions on this stuff after some sleep!