Is Eminem Limiting Himself?

[kkaniff]

So, 3 songs out if 16?
I strongly disagree about the rhyme scheme being detrimental to Legacy btw, I can give reasons why it adds to the beauty of the song, can you give reasons why it removes from it?
Also don't agree with Love Game, I can also give reasons.

[VINTAGƎ]

So, 3 songs out if 16?
I strongly disagree about the rhyme scheme being detrimental to Legacy btw, I can give reasons why it adds to the beauty of the song, can you give reasons why it removes from it?
Also don't agree with Love Game, I can also give reasons.

Desperation, Beautiful Pain didn't have to be as technical as they were either.

And you're asking me what songs I felt were unnecessarily technical but almost every song is technical.

Rap God is but I love it. Rhyme Or Reason is but I love it, etc.

The majority of the album is extremely technical, and like I said, some of them work, some of them don't.

That's also, one part of the bigger topic and reason for this thread, and that is -- is Eminem limiting himself by only trying to compete with his fellow rapper as opposed to focusing on being an overall music icon period. Why win rap album of the year when you can win album of the year, you know?

That's my issue. He has all the gifts needed to do that but instead decides to stay in a box.

[VINTAGƎ]

Oh and, as far as Legacy -- why I feel it holds the song back? Because he's restricting his lines. He can only write lyrics that maintain the same rhyme.

Suppose for example he wanted to say something about how his legacy isn't as respected as some of his peers because he's white? Or something else personal or profound?

"My legacy's ignored often, critics cross me --
Off, because my skin color is cream and not coffee"

"Hmmm, na. That's not gonna work. Alright forget the race stuff. Save that for another song or something."

There's only so many words that rhyme with the words he used. While he gets props for being creative, it restricts him because now he can only say things that rhyme with that one word.

If he sheds that restriction, who knows what we get.

[Hopsinshadie]

Oh and, as far as Legacy -- why I feel it holds the song back? Because he's restricting his lines. He can only write lyrics that maintain the same rhyme.

Suppose for example he wanted to say something about how his legacy isn't as respected as some of his peers because he's white? Or something else personal or profound?

"My legacy's ignored often, critics cross me --
Off, because my skin color is cream and not coffee"

"Hmmm, na. That's not gonna work. Alright forget the race stuff. Save that for another song or something."

There's only so many words that rhyme with the words he used. While he gets props for being creative, it restricts him because now he can only say things that rhyme with that one word.

If he sheds that restriction, who knows what we get.

Em is very hung up on the technical aspect of rap. He talks about it all the time. But he needs to forget about it and come up with good concepts first and then worry about the technical stuff when revising.

[aog34]

What's crazy is I agree and get what you're saying vintage. I think eminem actually proved his technical wizardry on relapse and refill already an it was so ahead of its time that it's kind of caught a cult like following and appreciation currently. The inner workings of a serial killer theme while playing that angle linguistically is what he was doing and was brilliant. I consider it a concept album from him in full "evil" mode that still amazes me every time.

The em I truly miss and echoes your argument is the "straight forward" conceptual em.
Guilty conscience
Kim
Stan
Lose yourself
Bonnie and Clyde

Songs that weren't caught up in lyrical wizardry but having a "big picture" approach with a story acted out by him talking to you in rhyming Forman while not compromising his flow and his inflections in his voice immolated the emotion perfectly. That is when em is king and cannot be fucked with. I felt bad guy would've been way more effective with that approach.

What you're basically saying is that em should get back into "re-inventing" rap again as opposed to "competing" and step into unchartered territory like he's done in the past with the current scene. I 100% agree.

[VINTAGƎ]

What's crazy is I agree and get what you're saying vintage. I think eminem actually proved his technical wizardry on relapse and refill already an it was so ahead of its time that it's kind of caught a cult like following and appreciation currently. The inner workings of a serial killer theme while playing that angle linguistically is what he was doing and was brilliant. I consider it a concept album from him in full "evil" mode that still amazes me every time.

The em I truly miss and echoes your argument is the "straight forward" conceptual em.
Guilty conscience
Kim
Stan
Lose yourself
Bonnie and Clyde

Songs that weren't caught up in lyrical wizardry but having a "big picture" approach with a story acted out by him talking to you in rhyming Forman while not compromising his flow and his inflections in his voice immolated the emotion perfectly. That is when em is king and cannot be fucked with. I felt bad guy would've been way more effective with that approach.

What you're basically saying is that em should get back into "re-inventing" rap again as opposed to "competing" and step into unchartered territory like he's done in the past with the current scene. I 100% agree.

This is absolutely what I'm saying.

When he's on his songwriting shit, he takes it to a level other rappers can only dream of. Like I said, no one out there, not even the heavy hitters like Kanye and Jay are gonna be making Stan or Lose Yourself anytime soon.

Eminem's body of work speaks for itself. He can get super lyrical. Everybody knows that. He doesn't have to do that.

"Dear mister I'm too good to call or write my fans. This will be the last package I ever send your ass! It's been six months and still no word, I don't deserve it? I know you got the last two letters, I wrote the addresses on them perfect!" is significantly better than "And to think I used to think you was the shit, bitch. To think it was you at one time I worshipped, shit. Think you can hurt people and just keep getting away with, it? Not this time, you better go and get the sewing kit, bitch."

One sounds like an actual pissed off fan writing a letter, the other sounds like a rapper trying to maintain the same lyrical uniform. It takes away from the feeling of the song.

He used to rap like he was talking to his listeners. Now he's like fuck it, I'm gonna make it a point to show off how lyrical I am.

Some songs suffer as a result.

[aog34]

What's crazy is I agree and get what you're saying vintage. I think eminem actually proved his technical wizardry on relapse and refill already an it was so ahead of its time that it's kind of caught a cult like following and appreciation currently. The inner workings of a serial killer theme while playing that angle linguistically is what he was doing and was brilliant. I consider it a concept album from him in full "evil" mode that still amazes me every time.

The em I truly miss and echoes your argument is the "straight forward" conceptual em.
Guilty conscience
Kim
Stan
Lose yourself
Bonnie and Clyde

Songs that weren't caught up in lyrical wizardry but having a "big picture" approach with a story acted out by him talking to you in rhyming Forman while not compromising his flow and his inflections in his voice immolated the emotion perfectly. That is when em is king and cannot be fucked with. I felt bad guy would've been way more effective with that approach.

What you're basically saying is that em should get back into "re-inventing" rap again as opposed to "competing" and step into unchartered territory like he's done in the past with the current scene. I 100% agree.

This is absolutely what I'm saying.

When he's on his songwriting shit, he takes it to a level other rappers can only dream of. Like I said, no one out there, not even the heavy hitters like Kanye and Jay are gonna be making Stan or Lose Yourself anytime soon.

Eminem's body of work speaks for itself. He can get super lyrical. Everybody knows that. He doesn't have to do that.

"Dear mister I'm too good to call or write my fans. This will be the last package I ever send your ass! It's been six months and still no word, I don't deserve it? I know you got the last two letters, I wrote the addresses on them perfect!" is significantly better than "And to think I used to think you was the shit, bitch. To think it was you at one time I worshipped, shit. Think you can hurt people and just keep getting away with, it? Not this time, you better go and get the sewing kit, bitch."

One sounds like an actual pissed off fan writing a letter, the other sounds like a rapper trying to maintain the same lyrical uniform. It takes away from the feeling of the song.

He used to rap like he was talking to his listeners. Now he's like fuck it, I'm gonna make it a point to show off how lyrical I am.

Some songs suffer as a result.

Man. I'm so glad I stumbled onto this forum. People like you understand "music".

Crazy thing is, I think on so far, he came close. I actually heard that again. But the production, while good, didn't fit to me. He needs some good ole Dre back in the mix on the next project with his own and some bass brothers. They just understand how to bring that "thing" out of em. I think a ill concept he could bring to a song currently is his interaction with his daughter being a young adult. Imagine his funny take on hailie going to the prom/college or bringing a boy home and him dealing with it only the way he can? So many angles and greatness untapped.

[VINTAGƎ]

What's crazy is I agree and get what you're saying vintage. I think eminem actually proved his technical wizardry on relapse and refill already an it was so ahead of its time that it's kind of caught a cult like following and appreciation currently. The inner workings of a serial killer theme while playing that angle linguistically is what he was doing and was brilliant. I consider it a concept album from him in full "evil" mode that still amazes me every time.

The em I truly miss and echoes your argument is the "straight forward" conceptual em.
Guilty conscience
Kim
Stan
Lose yourself
Bonnie and Clyde

Songs that weren't caught up in lyrical wizardry but having a "big picture" approach with a story acted out by him talking to you in rhyming Forman while not compromising his flow and his inflections in his voice immolated the emotion perfectly. That is when em is king and cannot be fucked with. I felt bad guy would've been way more effective with that approach.

What you're basically saying is that em should get back into "re-inventing" rap again as opposed to "competing" and step into unchartered territory like he's done in the past with the current scene. I 100% agree.

This is absolutely what I'm saying.

When he's on his songwriting shit, he takes it to a level other rappers can only dream of. Like I said, no one out there, not even the heavy hitters like Kanye and Jay are gonna be making Stan or Lose Yourself anytime soon.

Eminem's body of work speaks for itself. He can get super lyrical. Everybody knows that. He doesn't have to do that.

"Dear mister I'm too good to call or write my fans. This will be the last package I ever send your ass! It's been six months and still no word, I don't deserve it? I know you got the last two letters, I wrote the addresses on them perfect!" is significantly better than "And to think I used to think you was the shit, bitch. To think it was you at one time I worshipped, shit. Think you can hurt people and just keep getting away with, it? Not this time, you better go and get the sewing kit, bitch."

One sounds like an actual pissed off fan writing a letter, the other sounds like a rapper trying to maintain the same lyrical uniform. It takes away from the feeling of the song.

He used to rap like he was talking to his listeners. Now he's like fuck it, I'm gonna make it a point to show off how lyrical I am.

Some songs suffer as a result.

Man. I'm so glad I stumbled onto this forum. People like you understand "music".

Crazy thing is, I think on so far, he came close. I actually heard that again. But the production, while good, didn't fit to me. He needs some good ole Dre back in the mix on the next project with his own and some bass brothers. They just understand how to bring that "thing" out of em. I think a ill concept he could bring to a song currently is his interaction with his daughter being a young adult. Imagine his funny take on hailie going to the prom/college or bringing a boy home and him dealing with it only the way he can? So many angles and greatness untapped.

Thanks man. I mean I'm all over the place when it comes to what I listen to. I'm sure a lot of people on here are mostly hip hop fans and that's cool, and maybe that's why a lot of people are down with the super technical stuff, but a lot of my favorite songs don't even rhyme. Let alone have complex lyrical structures.

I hear some stuff of Em's and I just see him breaking out of the hip hop mold and creating his own signature musical style. He could be doing so much more given his attention to musical detail but he seems content with:

Someone else's beat + super lyrical verse + sampled hook or guest singer + super lyrical verse + hook + super lyrical verse + hook

He can totally break out and expriment with a different formula and hopefully he does that at some point.

He has too much musical knowledge and skill to just focus on one aspect (technical), especially since he's shown an ability to do much more than that early on in his career.

[Hopsinshadie]

Vintage is the truth. Honesty is a virtue. GOAT poster YO. Keep getting your post on!!

[unbound88]

its like 4 am so i'm not going to reply to this now but I read thru all 6 pages, really great topic OP and important as well, I'll try and post some of my own opinions on this stuff after some sleep!

[kkaniff]

I strongly disagree with this thread but I'm too bored/DGAF enough to bother to type out why.

[4Corners]

VINTAGE with some fucking essays on here, lol

He's not 100% the same guy as his prime years, and I don't expect him to be. He's still the best rapper alive, IMO, and put out his 4th best album at 41 years old. There's a fire and assurance in his delivery on MMLP2 that hasn't been there since Eminem Show, and on this album he delivered a diverse look into his lyrical ability. It's easily his most diverse album ever, but there's a general sound to 90% the album.

Disagree about Love Game. Em going HAM in that last verse completely made the song. I get what you're saying about him trying to be over technical, and the choppy flow here and there could never match his prime flow. But if you keep expecting something to be a classic like his first three, you'll be disappointed forever. If Nas fans expected stuff to match Illmatic, then they'd be pissed off since 1996. But no, they know Nas is still one of the illest emcees in the game, and that he produced good, solid, or very good albums since then. But it's like with Em, if he isn't 100% the same guy he was in his peak, it's like nope he fell off. It's retarded.

Relapse bombed critically because he was trying to rap in those fucking accents and that never resonated with most people, and because he was trying to stir up a controversial album saying weird shit 90% of the time, and needless to say there was no controversy.

MMLP2 is the closest he's come to his prime self, based simply on the fire and assurance in his delivery.

[4Corners]

If Eminem kept making the same records that sounded like his older shit over and over and over again, it'd have grown old.

There's a reason Eminem is still the biggest rapper alive. All I know he delivered on 18/21 tracks on this album, and that's a much higher percentage than his last three.

[4Corners]

If anything, I think it's incredible that he made a song where the general rhyme never changes, and not all those words are even meant to rhyme. He bends certain words to rhyme with other ones, Legacy is fucking dope. There's one bad line in that song, and it was meant to be over the top. Legacy is him doing to chick hooks the right way. Same thing with Bad Guy.

Like if Bad Guy, Rhyme or Reason, So Much Better, Groundhog Day, Legacy, Asshole, Baby, Rap God, Brainless, So Far, Headlights, Evil Twin, Beautiful Pain aren't the Eminem you want in 2013.....then I truly believe you don't know what you want, or want him to be 100% exactly like he was in 2002.

Beautiful Pain was dope, especially after the mother frickin deep end line, I could take or leave the first part of the 2nd verse, but after that the flow is undeniable.

[biscuitsbrah]

Hes changed, just gotta accept it. Hes more of a rapper lyricist (a "rap god") more than a smooth flowing rapper. Plus hes old, what sounds awesome to him is different because hes 40.