Some scatter-brained thoughts about MMLP2.

[whore to a chainsaw]

Alright so there's no way I can organize this stuff properly unless possibly I go step outside and ask the first mongoloid throw-back from the stone ages that I see if he will trade me my phone charger for a point or two of crystal meth before-hand... And since I already cleaned my house this morning... twice, I'll just mash it all into this thread.

So uh... I have a bunch of things I would like to discuss about MMLP2 or to be more specific, throw out there and let you guys (and masochistic vagina people) argue about.

Number #1

I think Eminem is better than he ever was at what he does. I am not saying that his new material is better than his old material. I think that the man writing his new material is showcasing more skill than he was in the act of creating his new music in contrast to the skill that was needed for him to write the first MMLP.

I know a lot of you won't agree with this... and perhaps you would be correct but I want you guys (and masochistic vagina people) to look at it this way.

What is more incredible? Looking at Eminem's entire career and discography collectively with all things old and new included in the sum? Or looking at the awesomeness that is MMLP or TES?

I think what makes Eminem absolutely phenomenal is the fact that while having already made MMLP and painting this incredibly detailed and specific portrait of himself in the minds of his listeners using his lyrics and everything he sold about himself as the brush... he was able to make my jaw drop 2 years later when I heard "Halies Song." As well as every possible variant of this analogy throughout his career.

Now, imagine being in the position Eminem was in before making the original MMLP. I am not saying that this album was not so incredible that my argument could potentially be rendered null... objectively. I want that to be debated. What I'm suggesting is that there is a chance that that argument is not non-existent. That argument being that in the position he was in back then... with the image he had painted of himself with the slim shady LP... and the public outrage about his music... he had so much to work with that as awesome as it is... I don't think he had to try THAT hard to pump out MMLP. He had so much to play off of. Back then it wasn't about jaw dropping lyricism. It was there but that wasn't even what you noticed. Instead he was selling us HIMSELF and his description of himself through his lyrics. It was like "Holy shit look at this crazy white guy, I wonder what he has to say next!" rather than "Ok, everyone already knows this guy and after everything he's done he can't fall back on pushing boundaries and shocking everyone with his wit and outrageousness, look how SKILLED he is!"

Imagine having made SSLP, MMLP, TES, Encore, Relapse, Recovery and now being a 40 year old man who no matter what... can not sell HIMSELF like he could before... which amazingly was probably a bigger reason in regards to what made him so big than even his writing skills themselves were although obviously those two things could only exist alongside one another. He has already said EVERYTHING and done everything he's done in the span of those seven albums AS WELL as 8 mile.

So you're Eminem at 40 or 39 or whatever age he was when he decided "Ok, to get started on a new album." You've already done everything I just described and you're a 40 year old man. What I'm saying is in comparison to back then... he is/was SO limited in regards to what he could possibly do to even be considered anywhere CLOSE to appealing as he used to be. That is why he has been able (like I saw someone commenting on and saying "It's NOT NORMAL!") to stay ON TOP for 13 years. To do everything he did back then in 2000 and to come back in 2013 and have the most likes ever on facebook from a new generation. It ISN'T normal... and it's only possible because in the position I described (and what I believe has existed since he had to make Encore) most artists would NEVER, EVER be able to CONTINUE to be so incredible in DIFFERENT ways that they're simply the best at all of them. Most artists, if they hit the scene as big as eminem did by shocking people... creating such a big fuss... everything surrounding selling the crazy, controversial image of himself... they would NOT be able to CONTINUE doing it after say... the amount of material up to the end of TES came out because then they would be forced to come up with something good in such a tight, limited situation.

The fact that he was able to write MMLP2 after his first 6-7 albums is ABSOLUTELY FUCKING PHENOMENAL.

I think you can REALLY see it if you are a lyricist yourself. I'm not claiming to be a SUCCESSFUL lyricist because I've never put any of my writing to a beat but I've always felt that I was extremely good at it and it has been a dream of mine to put some of my lyrics to some beats... as I want to produce for fun too... and I always felt that what I was writing was really exciting as it seemed to me to be almost on par with Eminem's stuff on Recovery. (Probably not, obviously... but to me it felt really good and made me happy) but when I listen to MMLP2... it's like Eminem said on seduction. "You're going to want to throw out your whole album."

I don't think MMLP2 is his most groundbreaking album ever... That would be IMPOSSIBLE. Absolutely, objectively and utterly IMPOSSIBLE. Like I said, he can not sell HIMSELF anymore alongside his music and there is simply no way someone of his age can have the mass appeal to the type of audience hip hop draws in that someone in their twenties can have.

That being said... I think MMLP2 is the most incredible album he has ever made from the standpoint in regards to the skill that he had to display to make it happen... alongside ALL of the variables... his age... what he's already done... his appeal in 2013.

I hate when people under-rate this album because they're too busy comparing it with their memories of his old stuff through rose tinted glasses. Those songs from back then will always be very personal to us all. Obviously, it's hard to imagine anything we hear today being close to something we cherish so much. Songs in which our memories of our younger years are described with in a language that we can not verbalize... Songs that important memories of our lives... different women... different emotions... different times with friends... are all intertwined with in our long-term memory.

Obviously anything he does now will have to be FUCKING BADASS to even be CONSIDERED by someone whether or not it is even COMPARABLE to his old stuff... and specifically the fucking Marshall Mathers LP.

Too long, Didn't read : I think MMLP2 is a showcase of a higher level of skill than Eminem has ever exhibited and before you want to bust my face... Part of that reason is considering his old stuff as part of his discrography alongside it and I'm viewing his skill based on MMLP2 as it sits alongside the rest of his catalog.

Discuss?

[Him Shadow]

"I think Eminem is better than he ever was at what he does. I am not saying that his new material is better than his old material."

I know what you ment by that, but it sounds funny

[csw621]

Anyone who doesn't think this album is lightyears ahead of anything he's put out before isn't listening to it loud enough.

[kkaniff]

First off, I'm back bitches.
Second, I totally agree with what you're saying @whore to a chainsaw. It was a daring move to name the album MMLP2 and thus invite comparism with the original, I suspect the intent was to encourage discussion as to HOW the original is superior to the sequel, how is Stan superior to Bad Guy? How does Rap God compare to 'Till I Collapse?
The reaction of most people, when presented with the MMLP vs. MMLP2 or Bad Guy vs. Stan or TIC vs. Rap God debate is usually "Pfft, it just is yo, MMLP a classic" and regurgitate stuff about wit and social commentary they read on Spin.
I would bet my life that the average poster on this forum or any other forum on the internet doesn't understand why Stan or The MMLP is so highly rated.
So, obviously, they would think MMLP2 is average/doesn't compare to the Big 3 because the media/critics/popular forum opinion hasn't stated otherwise. Yet.
FACT: Eminem's technical skills on MMLP2 are better than on the original.
FACT: Songs on The MMLP2 can be compared with those in his prime, the fact that an argument comparing Bad Guy to Stan; one of the greatest hip-hop, fuck it, greatest songs OF ALL TIME hasn't been universally derided and condemned shows that there is basis for comparism, and if a song can be compared to one of the greatest of all time, then what does that make it? Where then does it rank?
Think about it.
Also, where the fuck is Hopsinshadie? I miss that guy.

[Sofi1993]

Anyone who doesn't think this album is lightyears ahead of anything he's put out before isn't listening to it loud enough.

This. MMLP2 is his best album since TES.

[yoda you can call me]

Yes i do agree that em displays a level a skill on this album that outweighs his previous material.
The third verse of Rapgod is on some biblical shit, every time i hear it, i get so fucking pumped and psyched up by it..

[Notalius]

As soon as I saw that whore to a chainsaw posted I expected a long ass post lol .. kinda disappointed.

Still a great read though.

[StanBase]

As well as every possible variant of this analogy throughout his career.

Haha, analogy.

Also you said you had a lot of stuff to talk about, but didn't continue after Number #1 which also is redundant because #=number.

[kkaniff]

Ooh, burn.

[VINTAGƎ]

Skill wise I agree, he's at his technical best.

MMLP 2 is a solid album, but there was something about his earlier stuff that just can't be touched. I've made peace with it. Not everything an artist puts out can be the greatest thing they ever put out. At some point, they're gonna reach a plateau. You can't keep outdoing yourself.

I just appreciate that at 41 -- the guy is still working really hard on new material. He could have taken the Lay-Z route and mailed it in on every verse he wrote for the past 5 years, but if anything, has gotten more focused on crafting a technically flawless verse than he's ever been. He's working harder than he's ever worked. Subjectively you can argue whether the songs are good or bad, but objectively it's quite obvious his ability to rhyme words has gotten better.

[sbolli1]

Skill wise I agree, he's at his technical best.

MMLP 2 is a solid album, but there was something about his earlier stuff that just can't be touched. I've made peace with it. Not everything an artist puts out can be the greatest thing they ever put out. At some point, they're gonna reach a plateau. You can't keep outdoing yourself.

I just appreciate that at 41 -- the guy is still working really hard on new material. He could have taken the Lay-Z route and mailed it in on every verse he wrote for the past 5 years, but if anything, has gotten more focused on crafting a technically flawless verse than he's ever been. He's working harder than he's ever worked. Subjectively you can argue whether the songs are good or bad, but objectively it's quite obvious his ability to rhyme words has gotten better.

How Em continues to get as much hate as he does when compared to Jay fucking Z's lazy ass these days is beyond me.

[sbolli1]

Skill wise I agree, he's at his technical best.

MMLP 2 is a solid album, but there was something about his earlier stuff that just can't be touched. I've made peace with it. Not everything an artist puts out can be the greatest thing they ever put out. At some point, they're gonna reach a plateau. You can't keep outdoing yourself.

I just appreciate that at 41 -- the guy is still working really hard on new material. He could have taken the Lay-Z route and mailed it in on every verse he wrote for the past 5 years, but if anything, has gotten more focused on crafting a technically flawless verse than he's ever been. He's working harder than he's ever worked. Subjectively you can argue whether the songs are good or bad, but objectively it's quite obvious his ability to rhyme words has gotten better.

How Em continues to get as much hate as he does when compared to Jay fucking Z's lazy ass these days is beyond me.

[VINTAGƎ]

Skill wise I agree, he's at his technical best.

MMLP 2 is a solid album, but there was something about his earlier stuff that just can't be touched. I've made peace with it. Not everything an artist puts out can be the greatest thing they ever put out. At some point, they're gonna reach a plateau. You can't keep outdoing yourself.

I just appreciate that at 41 -- the guy is still working really hard on new material. He could have taken the Lay-Z route and mailed it in on every verse he wrote for the past 5 years, but if anything, has gotten more focused on crafting a technically flawless verse than he's ever been. He's working harder than he's ever worked. Subjectively you can argue whether the songs are good or bad, but objectively it's quite obvious his ability to rhyme words has gotten better.

How Em continues to get as much hate as he does when compared to Jay fucking Z's lazy ass these days is beyond me.

It's content/image based. Jay-Z fans don't listen to Jay-Z for top notch lyricism and creativity. They listen to him to hear him rattle off names of expensive cars and clothes they'll never be able to afford. Trips to countries and black tie events they'll never visit or attend. They live vicariously through his music. It's just cooler to listen to trend rap like Jay and Kanye.

For them, it's not cool to listen to a song like Brainless where the rapper raps about getting picked on and bullied. Who wants to hear that? It's all about money and pussy. And being a cool motherfucker with the hottest clothes and the dopest cars. Jay-Z provides fantasy escapism. When you listen to him you feel like a baller. Eminem raps about real issues that affect regular people. Some people can't get down with that.

[Nostradomus]

Can you guys elaborate on what you mean by technical? All I think of when I hear that is rhyme schemes and multis, and in that case I would have to disagree with MMLP2>MMLP in that aspect, although on Legacy he does stay on the same rhyme scheme (unlike anything done on MMLP).

[Kill You]

Not EVERY single song or line works, yeah, but it's true...Eminem on MMLP2 is as good as he has ever been if not better. His technical skills are seriously top-notch on the album. Even if people aren't feeling the hooks or the music, no one can say that Eminem himself disappointed because he went hard. Even on The Monster he delivers some good verses.