Is TES still the most mature album?

[EminemBase]

Recovery I would say.

Curious though, what do you mean by mature?

Quite hard to explain. I'd say like the least reliant on shock lyrics or toilet humour but instead Em showing his rawest emotions without having the cartoon-ish slim shady persona popping in and out just to piss off certain people
Also him dealing with mature themes and not murder/rape/drugs etc.

I wouldn't call that mature though... you can be realistic and head-on and be an immature moron.

Em was still quite ego-strong and immature on TES. Less so on Recovery.

[shadyblogger]

Yeah after relistening to some of TES I realized that there is definitely still some immaturity and shock value in there. Well I guess Em has always had shock value since SSEP for the most part but it kinda surprised me. There's a lot of immaturity on TES. Not a bad thing though.

[Snakebeast]

Recovery I would say.

Curious though, what do you mean by mature?

Quite hard to explain. I'd say like the least reliant on shock lyrics or toilet humour but instead Em showing his rawest emotions without having the cartoon-ish slim shady persona popping in and out just to piss off certain people
Also him dealing with mature themes and not murder/rape/drugs etc.

I wouldn't call that mature though... you can be realistic and head-on and be an immature moron.

Em was still quite ego-strong and immature on TES. Less so on Recovery.

Definitely not. The opening lines to Recovery are"YOU CAN GET THE DICK, JUST CALL ME THE BALLSACK, I'M NUTS!" He then proceeds to make 7 songs rapping about how awesome he is, and I can think of at least three penis punchlines he used on the album off the top of my head.

[EminemBase]

Definitely not. The opening lines to Recovery are"YOU CAN GET THE DICK, JUST CALL ME THE BALLSACK, I'M NUTS!" He then proceeds to make 7 songs rapping about how awesome he is, and I can think of at least three penis punchlines he used on the album off the top of my head.

That's clearly parody though. It's Kill You-esque aka in-character.

But if you examine his real personal outlooks on songs about struggle, and women... Recovery is overall more mature, in comparison to him begging for law suits on TES.

On Recovery he admits true weakness and flaw... prior to that he took the piss out of himself but nothing quite like admitting he was going to insult other rappers due to jealousy and then realizing he's too shit with the pen and stuff like that. TES Eminem would never admit that.

[EminemBase]

Yeah after relistening to some of TES I realized that there is definitely still some immaturity and shock value in there. Well I guess Em has always had shock value since SSEP for the most part but it kinda surprised me. There's a lot of immaturity on TES. Not a bad thing though.

I'm not talking about shock value.

Shock value is not immature to me... it's just provocation. And the best and most mature artists in history provoke. Provocation is the back bone of modern art.

I'm talking about things like taking responsibility for his own mistakes and his share in things... TES is not that mature in that respect. He's still largely blaming everyone but himself, still largely caring about his image and ego... Recovery... not so much. His psycho-ness on Recovery is very fictionalized and then his clearly real moments of expression and embracing empathy and inspiration and responsibility... much more mature, if we're just talking a common-ground interpretation of mature.

That says nothing of quality, consistency, or anything else. But he shows more maturity on Recovery.

[Amadeo]

To call something immature is to suggest that a child/teenager with an undeveloped mind may write something similar.

It's unfathomable that a child/teen could write any of SSLP/MMLP/TES. When you listen to Recovery, you can picture a teenager writing some of the bars on it.

[Brainless BadGuy]

I can imagine a teenager writing some of the stuff on SSLP just not making it work in the context of the song like Em did. With recovery a lot of the immature lines feel extremely out of place and forced to the point where thru stick out like a sore thumb

[yoda you can call me]

Yeah after relistening to some of TES I realized that there is definitely still some immaturity and shock value in there. Well I guess Em has always had shock value since SSEP for the most part but it kinda surprised me. There's a lot of immaturity on TES. Not a bad thing though.

I'm not talking about shock value.

Shock value is not immature to me... it's just provocation. And the best and most mature artists in history provoke. Provocation is the back bone of modern art.

I'm talking about things like taking responsibility for his own mistakes and his share in things... TES is not that mature in that respect. He's still largely blaming everyone but himself, still largely caring about his image and ego... Recovery... not so much. His psycho-ness on Recovery is very fictionalized and then his clearly real moments of expression and embracing empathy and inspiration and responsibility... much more mature, if we're just talking a common-ground interpretation of mature.

That says nothing of quality, consistency, or anything else. But he shows more maturity on Recovery.

Do you not feel the maturity on Recovery was forced and a reaction to Relapse?

[Amadeo]

I can imagine a teenager writing some of the stuff on SSLP just not making it work in the context of the song like Em did.

Like what?

[Brainless BadGuy]

I can imagine a teenager writing some of the stuff on SSLP just not making it work in the context of the song like Em did.

Like what?

"opened a hole and my whole brain fell out of my skull
I picked it up and screamed "look bitch, what have you done!"

"Duh Da duh Da duh duh GO GO GADGET DICK"

"Clothes ripped like the Incredible Hulk.
I spit when I talk, I fuck anything that walks"

"I like happy things that make me happy and gleeful
Like when my teacher sucked my wee-wee in preschool"

[brady50]

Yeah after relistening to some of TES I realized that there is definitely still some immaturity and shock value in there. Well I guess Em has always had shock value since SSEP for the most part but it kinda surprised me. There's a lot of immaturity on TES. Not a bad thing though.

I'm not talking about shock value.

Shock value is not immature to me... it's just provocation. And the best and most mature artists in history provoke. Provocation is the back bone of modern art.

I'm talking about things like taking responsibility for his own mistakes and his share in things... TES is not that mature in that respect. He's still largely blaming everyone but himself, still largely caring about his image and ego... Recovery... not so much. His psycho-ness on Recovery is very fictionalized and then his clearly real moments of expression and embracing empathy and inspiration and responsibility... much more mature, if we're just talking a common-ground interpretation of mature.

That says nothing of quality, consistency, or anything else. But he shows more maturity on Recovery.

Do you not feel the maturity on Recovery was forced and a reaction to Relapse?

I think Recovery itself was forced. The most genuine and mature moment on the album is the last verse of GTC. It seems like that verse actually meant something to him.

[Amadeo]

I can imagine a teenager writing some of the stuff on SSLP just not making it work in the context of the song like Em did.

Like what?

"opened a hole and my whole brain fell out of my skull
I picked it up and screamed "look bitch, what have you done!"

"Duh Da duh Da duh duh GO GO GADGET DICK"

"Clothes ripped like the Incredible Hulk.
I spit when I talk, I fuck anything that walks"

"I like happy things that make me happy and gleeful
Like when my teacher sucked my wee-wee in preschool"

This shit is completely ridiculous. You're quoting small parts of a story...they're not meant to be looked at as individual lines, you're meant to look at the story as a whole since it's all connected.

Of course some moronic teenager can think to write the words "duh da duh da duh duh GO GO GADGET DICK" by themselves...but that line by itself is meaningless without the context. Same goes for the first example.

That's just as absurd as pulling a quote from a Louis CK special, and claiming that "any kid" could write it, completely ignoring the other parts of the routine/bit that it's part of:

"I grew up in Boston, and in Boston, people just beat the shit out of each other for no reason."

"Very few American parents give a crap about how they raise their kids."

"I like New York."

Such mundane, lame observations.

[Brainless BadGuy]

It's the same with recovery. You only take certain corny lines out of a well written song and say that a teenager could've wrote that bit, you could make that argument for any of his albums by just focusing on a few bars

[Snakebeast]

Definitely not. The opening lines to Recovery are"YOU CAN GET THE DICK, JUST CALL ME THE BALLSACK, I'M NUTS!" He then proceeds to make 7 songs rapping about how awesome he is, and I can think of at least three penis punchlines he used on the album off the top of my head.

That's clearly parody though. It's Kill You-esque aka in-character.

But if you examine his real personal outlooks on songs about struggle, and women... Recovery is overall more mature, in comparison to him begging for law suits on TES.

On Recovery he admits true weakness and flaw... prior to that he took the piss out of himself but nothing quite like admitting he was going to insult other rappers due to jealousy and then realizing he's too shit with the pen and stuff like that. TES Eminem would never admit that.

Parody? Parody of what? He's not in character. That is Eminem rapping as Eminem. There's no "Slim Shady" humour or wittiness, just rather dumb toilet humour.

TES was him rapping honestly. On that album, he admits that he probably wouldn't even let his own daughter listen to his music, and that the may have made mistakes when dealing with the whole Kim issue.

[Devil'sAdvocate]

I can imagine a teenager writing some of the stuff on SSLP just not making it work in the context of the song like Em did.

Like what?

"opened a hole and my whole brain fell out of my skull
I picked it up and screamed "look bitch, what have you done!"

"Duh Da duh Da duh duh GO GO GADGET DICK"

"Clothes ripped like the Incredible Hulk.
I spit when I talk, I fuck anything that walks"

"I like happy things that make me happy and gleeful
Like when my teacher sucked my wee-wee in preschool"