Lose Yourself....Ultimate rap song?

[4D]

I was listening to a few tracks last night, and this thought came to me.

Every rapper on the 8 mile soundtrack knew Nas said that "Eminem killed you (Jay-Z) on your own shit" in Ether. So they have their oppurtunity to show the world, just why they're leagues ahead of Eminem in terms of all time greats. Nas, Jay-Z, Rakim, etc All had a chance to kill Eminem on his own shit. So Jay-z drops an above average rap with Freeway, but nothing great. Nas brings a track that sounds very like a subliminal diss to Jay-Z, and is a cool track, but also nothing great. Then Rakim a legend, drops one of his typical multi-filled tracks to a kick ass beat and a one of his coolest hooks ever. And then Eminem kills them lyrically with Lose Yourself. This song was number one, it won 2 grammy's AND an oscar, and it shone above the great rappers on the soundtrack. It's probably the one song that if you're friend asked "What is the first Eminem song I should listen to?" that's the one you'd mention. It's not just a rap song, it's a song for rappers too, it's about their struggle and how hard it is to make it, so could also be the 1st Hip-Hop song you should mention to a new friend.

I think it has everything a great rap song should have, awesome flow, complex Lyricism, storytelling, strong emotion and great music.

Is it the ultimate rap song?

What's your opinion?

[AspirinE]

nah, man maybe an ultimate newage hip hop track.


but the ULTIMATE gotta have a few things in it.

- A funk or a Soul element in it, the core of every rap song is the beat and the sampling.
- I know it sounds akward and maybe i wouldnt agree with it myself, but it gotta be a BLACK song, coz thats what hip hop is. (thats my personal opinnion though)
- it gotta be unique and breakthrough. lose yourself is a hip hop song to remember but it didnt gain relevance as "breakthrough" yet, since it didnt introduce anything so special into hip hop.

edit: plus i think an ultimate song, would never be one that is a super-single.

it has to be credited by conscious decision not popularity.

[TRshady]

It's been played to death all over the world so it's lost a lot of it's power but it's an amazing track, the first time I heard it in a trailer while in an ICT class at school ... I was so fuckin excited, ran home when the class was over and spent ages on kazaa trying to get it ...

... then I played it at least 20 times straight, jumping around my room.

... good times.

[4D]

nah, man maybe an ultimate newage hip hop track.


but the ULTIMATE gotta have a few things in it.

- A funk or a Soul element in it, the core of every rap song is the beat and the sampling.
- I know it sounds akward and maybe i wouldnt agree with it myself, but it gotta be a BLACK song, coz thats what hip hop is. (thats my personal opinnion though)
- it gotta be unique and breakthrough. lose yourself is a hip hop song to remember but it didnt gain relevance as "breakthrough" yet, since it didnt introduce anything so special into hip hop.

edit: plus i think an ultimate song, would never be one that is a super-single.

it has to be credited by conscious decision not popularity.

I understand your point man, about the rap song should be by a black artist. But, has anyone written or released a complete track, that has everything. Rakim would be the only other person I can picture, cos he has the lyrical skills, and he's always rapping about rapping. But, his tracks don't get people jumpin inside themselves like "Lose Yourself" does. Most other rappers great tracks are either gangster related or beef related. If a track is gonna be better than Lose Yourself for the reasons i`m stating, I don't think a black artist has done one yet.

And being popular isn't a bad thing when it's critically acclaimed too, that adds greatness to it, not decreases it.

[AspirinE]

nah, man maybe an ultimate newage hip hop track.


but the ULTIMATE gotta have a few things in it.

- A funk or a Soul element in it, the core of every rap song is the beat and the sampling.
- I know it sounds akward and maybe i wouldnt agree with it myself, but it gotta be a BLACK song, coz thats what hip hop is. (thats my personal opinnion though)
- it gotta be unique and breakthrough. lose yourself is a hip hop song to remember but it didnt gain relevance as "breakthrough" yet, since it didnt introduce anything so special into hip hop.

edit: plus i think an ultimate song, would never be one that is a super-single.

it has to be credited by conscious decision not popularity.

I understand your point man, about the rap song should be by a black artist. But, has anyone written or released a complete track, that has everything. Rakim would be the only other person I can picture, cos he has the lyrical skills, and he's always rapping about rapping. But, his tracks don't get people jumpin inside themselves like "Lose Yourself" does. Most other rappers great tracks are either gangster related or beef related. If a track is gonna be better than Lose Yourself for the reasons i`m stating, I don't think a black artist has done one yet.

And being popular isn't a bad thing when it's critically acclaimed too, that adds greatness to it, not decreases it.

you're wrong in searching for everything in one.

The greatest songs come from artists that practice one style. you keep trying to put eminem on the pedestal for him using all styles. Its cool, its good, but i can always think of rappers that can do each element better than eminem.

Youre also judging the effect songs have on people by a personal bias. Ive experienced the "sould jumping" with more tracks than just eminem.

And what about "T.R.O.Y".. what about 2pacs "keep ya head up" ... etc.

u do realise that u needed to have a dj with raw talent to mix all that shit in the underground back in the days.. gluing tapes together, not using computers etc... etc.

Black artist have done everything eminem has been doing many times. Eminem himself, borrows some styles from black artists.

[pawel]

It's been played to death all over the world so it's lost a lot of it's power but it's an amazing track, the first time I heard it in a trailer while in an ICT class at school ... I was so fuckin excited, ran home when the class was over and spent ages on kazaa trying to get it ...

... then I played it at least 20 times straight, jumping around my room.

... good times.

oh yeah my WMP count said like 200, and I didn't count the times on tv I saw it, and the times I heard it on the radio I wonder if I still know every single line

[Curious]

This is a really good discussion topic Fordie!

First of all, there's no doubt that Lose Yourself is an amazing track, it has everything that you said it has - awesome flow, cool beat, excellent lyrics 'n storytelling, strong emotions - and it did gain an amazing amount of critical acclaim for a rap song, but i'm not necessarily sure that's a good thing in hip hop circles, it's lead to an over-exposion and (i hate this word) commercialization and I do agree with T that it's lost some of it's momentum due to this fact - it may not decrease a song that it gains critical acclaim, but somehow ppl's feelings about a song change and rap is all about that - people's feelings, what makes them vibe.

Question is whether a song like that could be considered as an ultimate hip hop song, cause to me the soul of hip hop is all the underground stuff, and as Asp said it might be a fantastic song but didn't introduce a new element into hip hop and does lack the funk/soul aspect so I tend to agree with him that "ultimate" is probably a too strong word.

However, i'll admit that it's actually one of the few songs that i still play on occasion and will probably never get tired of hearing, so that does say something about the quality of it, at least in my book.

Whether it should be a black or white artist i'm neither here nor there with, to me it's about talent, not race. But i'm sure a lot of ppl, especially blacks, have a different view on that.

Rakim actually has me jumpin inside myself on some tracks And there's plenty of fabulous tracks by e.g. Pac 'n probably also Biggie that would be right up there on the scale pushing close to ultimate for me, but whether anyone has achieved that yet I'm not sure - wouldn't that also be a bit sad in a way? If someone creates the ultimate, then where do you develop from that - the ultimate is the perfect deal, nothing tops it.

I have no clue whether any of this actually makes any sense at all

[mart85]

great topic fordie

I really don't know enough about the roots of hip hop to give an "inteliigent" point of view about wether it could be the ultimate rap song... I think I'd agree with what ASP said tho... but personally, I would call it one of the ultimate song period.... in the history of music... maybe not THE ultimate song, cause there are tons of great songs, but definately among the best of all-time...

first, it's been like the most popular song for weeks when it came out... and now you can still hear it in sporting events, like for example, before overtime period in the NHL, I always hear Lose Yourself... so it definatly was a song that people enjoyed listening to, and not just rap fans, most music fans in general.... and the great thing is, if you listen to the song carefully and "analyze" it, you realize that it's an amazing song! you can't say that about every popular songs... the lyrics are perfect, the message of the song is great ("You can do anything you set your mind to, man"), the beat has something unique (that electric guitar riff, the piano intro etc...) and Eminem's performance was perfect too...

so yeah, to me, it's definately one of the best songs of all-time

[JMG]

thats bullshit sayin u gotta be black why the fuck would that matter when ur judgein the song not the person fuckin idiot

[,-,'-{Bar}-',-,]

its a great hip hop song deiantly one of the best, but not the ultimate it is close though i dunno what id say is the ultimate but eveyrone has different oppionions on what hip hop actually is so not everyone will agree some people will say a tupac track is the ultimate some will say rakim eminem nas jay-z ya know

[4D]

I understand that hip-hop at it's true essence, has an underground sound, with scratchin on the mixers and a cool black rapper at the forefront. I love that too, and people don't think I haven`t listened to everything on Pac, Biggie, Rakim, Nas, Jay-z etc. I`m sayin like at it's peak, does it get better than Lose Yourself, as a total song. "Keep Your Head Up", "Dear Mama", "Brenda's Got A Baby" all awesome songs, but so are Eminems tracks like that, e.g "When I`m Gone", which still gives me shivers up the spine when I listen to it. But, i`m talkin about a song that's About Hip-hop, not about gangsta shit or personal shit.

And Asp, I don't think you can name someone better at Eminem in categories, maybe the same, but better is a matter of taste. But, how many can do everything. And it's not about Eminem really, it's about the Song.

If a black artist like Rakim or Pac released it, it would be hailed easily as the best ever, and still would have got the same commercial and critical successes that Eminem got with it. The only thing is no black rapper has made such a song about the rap game, with the skill that Eminem has, as of yet.

[,-,'-{Bar}-',-,]

I think it is. No other rap song had the same effect as this one did, to so many people. I'd call it perfect.

lol the best thing about the tack is the fact his managers and record label told him not to make it coz he couldnt do better than cleaning out my closet and eminem was like "oh cant i we'll fucking see about that" released this track and shit when crazy

[4D]

I think it is. No other rap song had the same effect as this one did, to so many people. I'd call it perfect.

lol the best thing about the tack is the fact his managers and record label told him not to make it coz he couldnt do better than cleaning out my closet and eminem was like "oh cant i we'll fucking see about that" released this track and shit when crazy

Yeah, I remember "CLeaning Out My Closet" was the song in the movie's trailer, that's awesome to make a better song than that was, cus C.O.M.C is tight as fuck as well.

[AspirinE]

=
And Asp, I don't think you can name someone better at Eminem in categories, maybe the same, but better is a matter of taste. But, how many can do everything. And it's not about Eminem really, it's about the Song.

If a black artist like Rakim or Pac released it, it would be hailed easily as the best ever, and still would have got the same commercial and critical successes that Eminem got with it. The only thing is no black rapper has made such a song about the rap game, with the skill that Eminem has, as of yet.

Once again, thats your opinion. I know many hardcore hip hop fans that will disagree.
What you think is what you think it doesnt make it true.

and I CAN mention a rapper that is better in most categories.
Theres tooo much hip hop out there.

[C-Game]

da first thing i did was wen readin dis topic was playin LOSE YOURSELF ... an eminem song im listenin to after quite some time. this is one song i actually performed on stage. as T said da first time i heard this song i was like ..WOW . eminem did it.. da whole country was on fire. even singhala stations kept playin this.as fordie said this song has it all..but being da ultimate rap song its a judgment calll. ASP proves his point. Thr are some biggie , pac ,warren g, rakim songs that i still bounce ma head. well if da throne was to be given its gonna be a hard decision. but finally ill say lose urself is eminems most SOUND song where he covered every category in a rap song. and if i say he surpassed 95% of da rap songs i think i may be ryt.. but da argument will always be there...