One of Em's biggest flaws

[Evan C.]

Is that he's always tended to surround himself with crap in terms of talented artists. I just noticed it, a lot of the D12 members, while entertaining at times, bog down his tracks. I've never really like Xzibit much. Obie is meh. I know he was being loyal to his boys in D12 after he blew up, but gosh, some of them suck (bizarre). And I don't know what he was thinking with 50 Cent.

Dre is good but he's really only an extension of Em because of the ghostwriting. I wish he would have stuck with Royce longer and collaberated with more with Jay-z and some of the other more critically acclaimed rappers.

[4D]

I agree with everything, except for Obie being "Meh", Obie's a very talented rapper and lyricist. I've only ever had respect for Proof and Swifty in D12, i've laughed at some of Bizarre's lines in the past, but bottom line is he's shit. 50, won't even go there. Cashis, not interested, Bobby Creekwater, gimme a fuckin break. Don't knock Dre though, Dre is the genius that helped Eminem find his own voice and sound, gave him incredible beats, and some awesome collabs. About the ghostwriting, that's minimal. Only on songs "Forgot About Dre", and "Guilty Conscience". "Forgot About Dre" was a gift from EMinem to DRe for helping him make it, and the idea for "Guilty Conscience" was something Dre actually kinda came up with. He had said how about doing a collab where we're like Night and Day, and then EMinem wrote the song. So there's still a collab on the creative sides of it.

I'd love to see Eminem collaborating with people like Nas (but don't think Nas wants to, think he's afraid after writing that shit in "Ether"), Canibus (Not gonna happen), Common, Talib Kweli, Apathy, etc. But it mightn't happen, there's an element of keeping it safe now in terms of being shown up. I`m not saying Eminem has anything to fear in doing tracks with these rappers, but he used to be itching to collab and burn the best rappers on their own tracks back when he started. Back when there was nothing to lose, but now, there's everything to lose, he keeps it safe. Keeps his fellow record label artists easy to outdo lyrically, and keeps his collabs simple also. It's a shame, because that is another reason why the EMinem we used to love listening to, no longer exists, or hasn't shown his face in a while at least.

[,-,'-{Bar}-',-,]

the ghostwriting for dre isnt minimal, well for eminem doing it for me its minimal, but when it wasnt eminem it was jay-z, royce da 5 9 did aswell, same as snoop dogg and well im pretty sure dre didnt write any of the 2001 album lol


on topic though, Obie is sick, and if you cant recognize that you blind listen to his first 2 albums his lyrics are awesome, with more push from his label he would have been alot bigger

also D12 are sick, proof, Swifty, Kinuva, Mr. Porter , whatever way you look at it these guys a great influences not bad ones, Proof was just sick all round so i wont comment, Swift and kuniva and true underground guys they dont sell out they got dope music they keep it real, thats a good unfluence to have, Mr porter is the same as them but also have dope as fuck beats witch makes him even better to have as a freind, bizzare is hillarious and good at what he does but ill keep it at that

the rest of the guys suck

[DOPE]

this guy is out his fuckin mind

the only crap artists Em is with are stat quo bobby and cashis, while cashis i only like 4 songs from him in total,

collab more with that bullshit ass Jay Z? Jay Z whose over rated over hyped and all, a collab with Nas would do but come on

Don't knock Dre though, Dre is the genius that helped Eminem find his own voice and sound, gave him incredible beats, and some awesome collabs

Em shouldnt even collab any more, all he should do is make another Eminem Show type album and let Dre pick out the songs which make the cut.

[BigBangBazinga]

Keep: Obie, Fifty, D12, Ca$his

Drop: Bobby Creek, Stat Quo.

[Tash8]

4d what did nas say in ether? about eminem killing jay-z in a track?

[MontanaFX]

Your right, most of the people Em collaborates with are not that talented. My problem with Proof was, he had a similar style to Em but wasnt quite as good. There was no real need for him in D12 because he didnt bring anything different. The reason I do like Bizarre is because he does bring something different. His style isnt generic in the slightest and he gives me jokes. Obie doesnt do anything for me. He has no skills. His style is basic and his lyrics dont send a message worth listening to (Based on cheers). Also 50 cent didnt hit the spot for me either, He did have some catchy party tunes though.

Dre has to be the most talented artist he has worked with. That tune with Jay-Z (Renegade) was hot, but generally JayZ is over rated.

[GSW]

Your right, most of the people Em collaborates with are not that talented. My problem with Proof was, he had a similar style to Em but wasnt quite as good. There was no real need for him in D12 because he didnt bring anything different. The reason I do like Bizarre is because he does bring something different. His style isnt generic in the slightest and he gives me jokes. Obie doesnt do anything for me. He has no skills. His style is basic and his lyrics dont send a message worth listening to. Also 50 cent didnt hit the spot for me either, He did have some catchy party tunes though.

Dre has to be the most talented artist he has worked with. That tune with Jay-Z (Renegade) was hot, but generally JayZ is over rated.

Is that a joke? No reason to "keep" Proof in D12? He made D12. Obie does have skills. He's definitely one of the best lyricists on Shady/Aftermath. I'm surprised Bizarre of all people discovered him. Dre is the most talented production wise, definitely. But like others have said in this thread, he barely writes his own lyrics. Jay-Z is overrated, but he is still great. Many classic albums and songs. One of the best of our time.

[Evan C.]

Keep: Obie, Fifty, D12, Ca$his

Drop: Bobby Creek, Stat Quo.

KEEP 50 and Cashis?

[Tash8]

keep no one, i think he should drop everyone but Obie... everyone else sucks and 50 doesn't need to be on shady anymore he's got his own shit..

get royce !!!

[Evan C.]

keep no one, i think he should drop everyone but Obie... everyone else sucks and 50 doesn't need to be on shady anymore he's got his own shit..

get royce !!!

Shit I'll agree w/ that. Though as we're typing this, I have this feeling his new CD won't be Encore bad but he'll have tons of collabs with 50, etc. and it'll be a lot of "You Don't Know" type tracks with some "When I'm Gone" tracks thrown in.

I miss the old EM!

[4D]

4d what did nas say in ether? about eminem killing jay-z in a track?

Yeah. Since he said that it makes it hard for him to ever do a collab with him, and go verse for verse, because he doesn't want the same thing to happen to him. Eminem produced the song "The Cross" on Nas's Gods Son album, and it would've been an ideal time for them to do a track together, but it never happened.

[Hadez]

with Proof dead D12 is garbage. nothin but mediocre rappers and bizarre (less than mediocre). Obie Trice is decent. 50, Stat Quo, Cashis, Bobby Creek... all garbage. and i have no respect for Dre as a rapper. Snoop can fuck himself, and Xzibit is nothing special. so really that leaves only Obie to collab with to satisfy me. unless, of course, he snags Royce for a verse, but i highly doubt that'd happen.

[MontanaFX]

The last I heard Royce and Em are beefing coz Royce was writing lyrics for 1 of Ems tours and somebody said it had hidden meaning dissing Em and crew. Em then got hyped without confronting Royce. It sounds like Em can get a bit hot headed at times.

[4D]

and i have no respect for Dre as a rapper.

I've a different point of view on that. I think Dre is one of the best "rappers" bar none, he's just not a lyricist. But, his delivery and voice is one of the best in the business. Forgot About Dre is proof of that, imo. But I still understand why you would say that, it's because he uses other lyricists lyrics sometimes, which is hard to respect. But a "Rapper" is a person who raps, not neccessarily someone who writes the lyrics. That's why it's hard to knock him as a rapper. Maybe if you said "Lyricist" or "Emcee" I'd agree with ya, he ain't gifted under those monikers.